Gerry wrote:

On May 13, 6:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

What the hell is "bodge"????

Andre will have his answer, but when he or someone else uses the term
they mean you have to make the signal from the microphone through to the
speaker via vinyl go through a roller coaster ride of "enfrightenment".

Why can't they just record the mic signal after amplifying with a linear
amp,
cutting record with a linear amplitude amp, and having playback
with a flat amp?

There are piles of reasons, and its difficult to get a band to behave
for
25minutes max and play perfectly so a direct to disc can be cut.
This would remove the bodge that is involved with all analog tape
recording.
Lots of AC bias at 38kHz, and lots of eq...bah, that's bodging the
signal.

In fact, analog is one big bodge after another.
NFB is a bodge where one trys to correct amplifier errors by
comparing the input and output signals and amplifying the difference to
cancel the errors
while you amplify the wanted signal. In my book,
just because such skulduggery looks cunningly evil, it does seem
only regretable, rather than being criminal, and afaiac, NFB bodging
does work
when done properly.

But at the end of the day, all the frequencies present at recording need
only
be at quite close to the same relationship at the speaker on replay and
we have hi-fi,
and the bodges make all that more effortlessly possible, as well as
reducing noise.
THD and IMD are introduced, but can be kept to tolerable levels
so low you don't realize they are present.

CD gave us convenience. I don't find all of them to be sonically
virtuous.

I have only to think about the gross eq and bodging done by guys in the
post recording processing
and I shudder....

I do know guys who would never use vinyl, but have someone record off
old records to make
a decent digital file, then they play it back using a reasonable
transport,
then use a DA converter costing a bomb made in limited numbers and with
much better sound than the DA in most generic CD players. They say they
get better sound this way
compared to fussing around with a real TT and phono amp, and keeping
records clean.
My tip would be to try something from
http://www.lavryengineering.com/index_flash.html

Not all digital sounds the same.

Patrick Turner.

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
Gerry wrote:
On May 13, 6:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none
of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness
that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

What the hell is "bodge"????

A very expressive English word meaning a crude fix, a makeshift
arrangement.



No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-bod1.htm

Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.

What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much :-)

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much :-)



Eau cointreau, a Bodger is/was 'real person' (ie existed once) - see:

http://www.bodgers.org.uk/


I'm surprised Pat *Turner* doesn't appear to know that.

Likewise, a 'sagger maker' is/was a real person (I have seen saggers
myself) - as was a 'sagger maker's bottom knocker'....

HTH

"Keith G" wrote in message
news

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held
up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much :-)



Eau cointreau, a Bodger is/was 'real person' (ie existed once) - see:

http://www.bodgers.org.uk/



Here's another for the crossposted Yanks (mentions Kentucky):

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...ages/1247.html

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message


What media doesn't require some bit of tinkering?

Digital media.

FM transmission has pre-emphasis;

Ignoring the complexities of stereo, which are significant.

tape has NAB equalization.

And bias.

Even your beloved CDs have a layer for Reed-Solomon error correction,

Irrelevant because it has nothing but positive effects on signal quality.

sampling rates,

Which have been rasied to insane levels of ovekill

and D/A conversion.

Which is one of the most perfected processed in audio.

Better stick to bike rides and pasta.

Better stick to something that you understand, Jon. That leaves audio out of
your diet.

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message

Andre Jute wrote:

Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say
I hope none of the participants passed on the gene of
obsessive shortsightedness that draws audiophiles into
the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad enough when
good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

I doubt you really know what you are missing out upon.

But all the really keen musically eclectic ppl i know who
have vast cd collections
indicating a misspent middle age also still enjoy vinyl.
Most find that despite the vast sums they have spent on
cd players and transports, da converters, isolation
platforms and other widgets and gadgets, the humble black
disk continues to delight, and
give a greater sense of connection to the artist than any
CD manages to do.

I have been present at a number of AB comparisons where a
CD version and vinyl version of the same material from
the same grand old master tape
was being played, and we could switch from one to the
other,
and vinyl seemed to have more to offer the audiophile
subjectively.

Mind you, the whole analog recording process onto tape et
all is a huge bodge to.

So is FM stereo mulptiplexing.

Never mind the bodges, the sound does not seem to suffer,
when they do it right, IMHO.

If you can't hear the damage that vinyl and analog tape do, then maybe you
can even personally defend the use of tubes.

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:23:55 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote in message
news

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held
up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much :-)



Eau cointreau, a Bodger is/was 'real person' (ie existed once) - see:

http://www.bodgers.org.uk/



Here's another for the crossposted Yanks (mentions Kentucky):

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...ages/1247.html




That's all very interesting for the etymology of the word, but the
meaning in context here is to do a job by some other means than the
official one - without any sort of judgement as to how good the result
is. Botch is another thing entirely. You could be doing the job
exactly as recommended, but if you do it poorly, you have botched it.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:23:55 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote in message
news

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"

wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs
or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a
mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held
up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much
:-)



Eau cointreau, a Bodger is/was 'real person' (ie existed once) -
see:

http://www.bodgers.org.uk/



Here's another for the crossposted Yanks (mentions Kentucky):

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...ages/1247.html




That's all very interesting for the etymology of the word, but the
meaning in context here is to do a job by some other means than the
official one - without any sort of judgement as to how good the result
is. Botch is another thing entirely. You could be doing the job
exactly as recommended, but if you do it poorly, you have botched it.



No, what you are describing is contemporary *misuse* of the word which
once had real meaning - like, say, to 'flog' something when you mean
sell it. Once the modern idiom is admitted all bets are off - see:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/