"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
As expected - no real answer...

So I see.

MrT.




No, I seriously doubt you do....

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
What that tells me is that vinyl is likely to be around for quite a
while yet, irrespective of what *percentage* it may or may not represent
of anything - what does it tell you....??

It tells me that people are now paying prices high enough that a few
manufacturers can satisfy a small volume market.
How long that will last is anybody's guess.

I suspect that a goodly portion of that market are buying their "last"
turntable.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
The greeks were a diverse lot. Just because some greek someplace thought
that the earth circulated around the sun didn't keep others from
believing
that Icaraus flew so close to the sun that the feathers on his arms
melted
off.

True, but most knew the difference between science and mythology.
I'm sure you do too.

Science and religion started out being almost completely blended
together.
Early technology was practiced by many as a kind of religious rite. Most
universities were run by the Church. Government, Science and Religon were
blended together.

Yes, and not necessarily for the better. Anything that contradicted the
current wisdom was considered heresy.

Agreed - why the founders of the US settled on religious freedom and
separation of church and state.

And for much of that, priests promoted themselves as the
"scientific establishment", and holders of all wisdom.

That was simply how things were. During the dark ages the churches were
the
places where ancient scientific wisdom was preserved and practiced.

In fact the dark ages was all about them NOT wanting any alternate wisdom
to
be preserved.

The dark ages were about european culture being forced into dire subsistance
mode by a number of natural and man-made disasters. There was the mini ice
age, and there were plagues due to poorly-designed water supplies,
transportation and housing. There was pressure from the Moslems. Politics
was dominated by people who didn't really know what they were doing
organizationally, and wrapped themselves up in religious rhetoric to cover
the slack.

TV faith healers are an aberration, not the mainstream of people of
faith.

Agreed, just like vinylista's are not the mainstream of music listeners
:-)

We're clearly on the same page here! ;-)

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news

It would be a different world if journalists who pretend to be technical
experts by dispensing technical advice had useful amounts of basic audio
engineering training.

They'd just go over the heads of their target audience then, and be
replaced
with someone who didn't.

It is true that cross-cultural writing is not easy.

Most people do not wish to learn unfortunately, they only want their
biases
reinforced.

Well, they want to be uplifted by being told that everything is OK.

Haven't you noticed the same thing happens on Usenet?

Yup. Ditto for the web.

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
"Arny Krueger" wrote

I have no interest in ruling any newsgroup. I just like to tell the
truth in the face of lies and distortions like the OP in this thread:

http://krakow.msnbc.msn.com:80/archi...29/338888.aspx

"There's a good reason for this. In addition to what people remember
as the
bad things that LPs provide (scratches, clicks and pops) vinyl discs
have
lots of good things going for them. LPs contain close to 100-percent
of the
uncompressed music information as originally recorded. CDs contain
only
about half of that recorded information. And compressed music files
are
left with only a small percentage of the information that's on a CD."

Lies and distortions? Where's your proof?

So you agree with that stupid statement then, where's YOUR proof, or even
a
definition of what the hell he's on about?

So you disagree with that stupid statement then,

Yup.

where's YOUR proof, or even a definition of what the hell he's on about?

Been there done that, very many times.

Too bad Keith that its against your religion to open a text book about audio
and actually try to understand it.

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
So you disagree with that stupid statement then,

Yep.

where's YOUR proof,

See the works of Shannon, and the last 25 years of actual test
measurements.

No, I said *where's* you proof, not *what* is your proof....

"The works of Shannon" is a "where".

"Adam Stouffer" wrote in message
news:MtqDi.7009$3R5.965@trnddc05...

I'll listen to Edison wax cylinders if I feel like it and theres not a
damn thing you can do about it.

You're badly deluded if you think that I want you to not listen to Edison
wax cylinders.

In fact, I've done so myself - I had an uncle that collected them, and other
forms of legacy music players and media. It is one of those things that
people should do at least once.

Obviously not the most enjoyable way to listen to music!

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...


See the works of Shannon, and the last 25 years of actual test
measurements.


No, I said *where's* you proof, not *what* is your proof....

Keith, the best "where" to go would be for you to begin with Shannon's
work. A good example last time I looked was at

http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/ms/what/s...day/paper.html

You would need to read his paper and understand it. (If that page has been
moved, you can probably find other copies of his papers elsewhere on the
web as it is quite an important bit of work. Forms one of the basics of
information theory and engineering.)

Alternatively, a summary introduction to the relevant part of his work is
covered in part 8 of the 'Information and Measurement' section of the
'Scots Guide'.

Once you have understood the work Shannon and others did you will then be
able to follow what the actual evidence in terms of quantifying amounts of
'information' means for various real-world systems, and then how different
systems compare on that basis.

if you apply this, then it can be shown fairly easily that even with very
careful manufacture and use, the vinyl LP system doesn't deliver an
information channel capacity that reaches that of a correctly made and used
CDA. Thus claims that it inherently has a higher information capacity than
CDA are simply incorrect. This has nothing to do with what you or I may
prefer to listen to.

Indeed, a rough assessment of this is an example I often use as a test
question for undergrads. Once you understand the relevant theory, the
evidence is quite clear, and has been so for some decades - even using
optimum values for test pressings. Examples of the relevant information
have appeared in the professional journals. Some of these are listed at as
references in the 'Good Resolutions' article on the audiomisc site.

TBH The main complication in assessing this accurately is that the
nonlinearies of LP as an information channel, along with all sorts of
factors like the max level and noise level varying with frequency and
distance from the center of rotation make it hard to take everything into
account. Thus most analysis omits these and assumes that the LP is better
(in terms of information channel capacity) than in reality will be the
case.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
The greeks were a diverse lot. Just because some greek someplace
thought
that the earth circulated around the sun didn't keep others from
believing
that Icaraus flew so close to the sun that the feathers on his arms
melted
off.

True, but most knew the difference between science and mythology.
I'm sure you do too.

Science and religion started out being almost completely blended
together.
Early technology was practiced by many as a kind of religious rite.
Most
universities were run by the Church. Government, Science and Religon
were
blended together.

Yes, and not necessarily for the better. Anything that contradicted
the
current wisdom was considered heresy.

Agreed - why the founders of the US settled on religious freedom and
separation of church and state.

And for much of that, priests promoted themselves as the
"scientific establishment", and holders of all wisdom.

That was simply how things were. During the dark ages the churches
were the
places where ancient scientific wisdom was preserved and practiced.

In fact the dark ages was all about them NOT wanting any alternate
wisdom to
be preserved.

The dark ages were about european culture being forced into dire
subsistance mode by a number of natural and man-made disasters. There
was the mini ice age, and there were plagues due to poorly-designed
water supplies, transportation and housing. There was pressure from
the Moslems. Politics was dominated by people who didn't really know
what they were doing organizationally, and wrapped themselves up in
religious rhetoric to cover the slack.

TV faith healers are an aberration, not the mainstream of people of
faith.

Agreed, just like vinylista's are not the mainstream of music
listeners :-)

We're clearly on the same page here! ;-)


You *sure* are...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
So you disagree with that stupid statement then,

Yep.

where's YOUR proof,

See the works of Shannon, and the last 25 years of actual test
measurements.

No, I said *where's* you proof, not *what* is your proof....

"The works of Shannon" is a "where".


No, a 'where' is a link in my book - check my posts, I do the groundwork
for you...

Want to see the new valve mic I bought today?

It's on eBay....