Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:04:50 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:



Don Pearce wrote:

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...%20Smover.html

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard. Doesn't have all that dodgy brake
stuff, either. A reasonably heavy stop (say from 20mph in 5 seconds)
only needs to dissipate 3kJ at 600W, which is no problem at all to
dissipate in a pair of wheel rims.

d

There is a hill here about a km long, and about 7% slope,
and when descending it one must use the brakes all the way down for
safety reasons.
But at the bottom the rims of my road bike have not heated, not even on
a hot day.


I live up a hill exactly like that. I have never stopped at the bottom
to check the temperature of the rims, but the brakes are always still
stopping me without problems.

I have 3 bikes, all with reliable old steel frames and they all weigh
about 11kg, but I'm 78Kg now, and I have no trouble riding 90k across
town and back....
And during this winter I only rode the bike which has ONE gear, a 44t
front cog, 18t rear cog,
giving a 68inch gear. I was using 72" for awhile, but that proved too
hard into headwinds when riding
up some hills. I am rebuilding one bike with new fangled index gearing
which will allow me the luxury of riding up some very steep hills here
again.

Patrick Turner.

I know about bikes like that. When I was at school I was a rower.
Every time we arrived at the boathouse, we would have to build a bike
for our coach to ride along the towpath. There was a huge pile of
scrap wheels and frames round the back, and in ten minutes we could
mix and match something rideable out of it all.

Mine isn't as bad as that. I am moving to 32 spokes per wheel with
D-rims,
the old 36 spokers with flat section Mavics had done around 50,000km and
began to crack
with fatigue....

I have worn out so much bicycle gear after pedling an estimated
110,000km...

I cycled much further than i drove last year.

The steepest and worst arsole of a hill here is 3km long, averaging 8%,
and I don't ride it much,Fitz's Hill,
its 60km away just to get to it. But there's another ******* of a hill
seen at

http://www.images.act.gov.au/duslibrary/imagesact.nsf/view/3300800B698256C94A256D8D001C1077/$File/005119.JPG

This is about 2km, and 7%, and a bit of traffic uses the narrow winding
road to the top.
There is a nice view over my town though.
I used to do this on 48 x 18, but 15 years have passed, and maybe I need
a 48 x 23.

As you loose teeth as you age, you must put them onto the rear
cluster....

I hope to be fit enough to do Fitz'z Challenge in November,
http://www.pedalpower.org.au/events/...IntContId=1207
this time its the 20th ride, and I was in the first couple a long time
ago.
Last time I did it pretty fast at 40, and rode the whole lot alone, and
not many were in it, but if I can finish it at all at 60
I will be pleased. Many people ride this now, so I should have
company.

Patrick Turner.





d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 04:39:50 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:



Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 03:04:50 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:



Don Pearce wrote:

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...%20Smover.html

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard. Doesn't have all that dodgy brake
stuff, either. A reasonably heavy stop (say from 20mph in 5 seconds)
only needs to dissipate 3kJ at 600W, which is no problem at all to
dissipate in a pair of wheel rims.

d

There is a hill here about a km long, and about 7% slope,
and when descending it one must use the brakes all the way down for
safety reasons.
But at the bottom the rims of my road bike have not heated, not even on
a hot day.


I live up a hill exactly like that. I have never stopped at the bottom
to check the temperature of the rims, but the brakes are always still
stopping me without problems.

I have 3 bikes, all with reliable old steel frames and they all weigh
about 11kg, but I'm 78Kg now, and I have no trouble riding 90k across
town and back....
And during this winter I only rode the bike which has ONE gear, a 44t
front cog, 18t rear cog,
giving a 68inch gear. I was using 72" for awhile, but that proved too
hard into headwinds when riding
up some hills. I am rebuilding one bike with new fangled index gearing
which will allow me the luxury of riding up some very steep hills here
again.

Patrick Turner.

I know about bikes like that. When I was at school I was a rower.
Every time we arrived at the boathouse, we would have to build a bike
for our coach to ride along the towpath. There was a huge pile of
scrap wheels and frames round the back, and in ten minutes we could
mix and match something rideable out of it all.

Mine isn't as bad as that. I am moving to 32 spokes per wheel with
D-rims,
the old 36 spokers with flat section Mavics had done around 50,000km and
began to crack
with fatigue....

I have worn out so much bicycle gear after pedling an estimated
110,000km...

I cycled much further than i drove last year.

The steepest and worst arsole of a hill here is 3km long, averaging 8%,
and I don't ride it much,Fitz's Hill,
its 60km away just to get to it. But there's another ******* of a hill
seen at

http://www.images.act.gov.au/duslibrary/imagesact.nsf/view/3300800B698256C94A256D8D001C1077/$File/005119.JPG

This is about 2km, and 7%, and a bit of traffic uses the narrow winding
road to the top.
There is a nice view over my town though.
I used to do this on 48 x 18, but 15 years have passed, and maybe I need
a 48 x 23.

As you loose teeth as you age, you must put them onto the rear
cluster....

I hope to be fit enough to do Fitz'z Challenge in November,
http://www.pedalpower.org.au/events/...IntContId=1207
this time its the 20th ride, and I was in the first couple a long time
ago.
Last time I did it pretty fast at 40, and rode the whole lot alone, and
not many were in it, but if I can finish it at all at 60
I will be pleased. Many people ride this now, so I should have
company.

Patrick Turner.



No thanks! That isn't for me. As I say, I'm not a cyclist, I ride a
bike. That means I get on it when I have somewhere I need to be. This
stuff is just road clutter and purpose-free greenhouse gas generation.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article ,
Patrick Turner wrote:

The steepest and worst arsole of a hill here is 3km long, averaging 8%,
and I don't ride it much,Fitz's Hill,
its 60km away just to get to it. But there's another ******* of a hill
seen at

http://www.images.act.gov.au/duslibr...00B698256C94A2
56D8D001C1077/$File/005119.JPG

This is about 2km, and 7%, and a bit of traffic uses the narrow winding
road to the top.
There is a nice view over my town though.

What's that town shown in the background? Is that your town or is it in
a different direction not shown in the photo?


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

On Sep 6, 7:27 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...igator%20L700%...

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard. Doesn't have all that dodgy brake
stuff, either. A reasonably heavy stop (say from 20mph in 5 seconds)
only needs to dissipate 3kJ at 600W, which is no problem at all to
dissipate in a pair of wheel rims.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Those brakes aren't dodgy, Don, they're hyper-competent; what I forgot
to add is that they have a built-in modulator. They stop the one-
eighth of a ton of me and the bike and light touring gear from thirty
kph in 11 feet. I know, because I chewed up a pair of tyres while I
practiced that one to perfection. But I agree with you, for casual use
those roller brakes are overkill.

However, you missed the point of the chain guard and the roller
brakes: it isn't just that the brakes are better, and the chain guard
civilized; what matters is that the totally enclosed brakes and the
totally enclosed chain guard make it an allweather bike -- or that
they are put on there because the specification is for an all-weather
bike. Unlike rim brakes, roller brakes are immune to rain.

Of course, a bike like that, in its primary market, The Netherlands,
is intended and taken into one's family as a permanent fixtu it is
not supposed to wear out. Rim brakes in the sort of daily commuter use
a Dutch city bike gets will wear out a pair of rims every second
year, a dangerous business because it isn't always possible to tell
when the rim is worn so thin by the brake blocks that it collapses the
next time you hit a bump in the road.

Finally, rim blocks are dirty and throw off black stuff, not much chop
on a daily commuter bike (which is what my Trek "Smover" pretends to
be whenever the designers glance at the marketing brief).

So, you see, my Smover's specification is quite consistent with the
bike's supposed purpose, and even more so after I patched up overly
sporting ergonomics. I bet your 3400 was sold to you as a "leisure"
bike. I don't suppose either of us uses a bike as heavily as your
median Dutch officeworker.

Andre Jute
Impedance is futile, you will be simulated into the triode of the
Borg. -- Robert Casey

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:09:24 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sep 6, 7:27 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...igator%20L700%...

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard. Doesn't have all that dodgy brake
stuff, either. A reasonably heavy stop (say from 20mph in 5 seconds)
only needs to dissipate 3kJ at 600W, which is no problem at all to
dissipate in a pair of wheel rims.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Those brakes aren't dodgy, Don, they're hyper-competent; what I forgot
to add is that they have a built-in modulator. They stop the one-
eighth of a ton of me and the bike and light touring gear from thirty
kph in 11 feet. I know, because I chewed up a pair of tyres while I
practiced that one to perfection. But I agree with you, for casual use
those roller brakes are overkill.


I'm a great fan of "keep it simple" for things like bikes. All those
features add weight and complication; and of course if they decide to
bust when you are out on the road, you are pushing.

However, you missed the point of the chain guard and the roller
brakes: it isn't just that the brakes are better, and the chain guard
civilized; what matters is that the totally enclosed brakes and the
totally enclosed chain guard make it an allweather bike -- or that
they are put on there because the specification is for an all-weather
bike. Unlike rim brakes, roller brakes are immune to rain.

There ain't no such thing as an all-weather bike. As far as I am
concerned my bike is a single-weather convenience. As soon as the wet
stuff starts, I'm back in my car.

But then I'm not a cyclist - I ride a bike.

Of course, a bike like that, in its primary market, The Netherlands,
is intended and taken into one's family as a permanent fixtu it is
not supposed to wear out. Rim brakes in the sort of daily commuter use
a Dutch city bike gets will wear out a pair of rims every second
year, a dangerous business because it isn't always possible to tell
when the rim is worn so thin by the brake blocks that it collapses the
next time you hit a bump in the road.


I'm well acquainted with bikes in the Netherlands, having ridden them
for many, many miles there. The average dutch bike appears to be
identical to those I remember from my childhood in the fifties. Hefty
frame and generally Victorian engineering.

Finally, rim blocks are dirty and throw off black stuff, not much chop
on a daily commuter bike (which is what my Trek "Smover" pretends to
be whenever the designers glance at the marketing brief).

So, you see, my Smover's specification is quite consistent with the
bike's supposed purpose, and even more so after I patched up overly
sporting ergonomics. I bet your 3400 was sold to you as a "leisure"
bike. I don't suppose either of us uses a bike as heavily as your
median Dutch officeworker.

I got my bike one January morning when I was feeling decidedly
post-chrismas and was on my way to the local gym to enrol. I walked
past the bike shop where a sale was on, and thought "hang on, this is
a much better idea than a stupid gym". So I walked in and had a chat
with the chap about what kind of uses I would be putting the bike to
around London - ending up with this one, and it has been perfect.

I rode it straight home up the hill to Hampstead, and arrive seeing
spots, and with tunnel vision. I've ridden it pretty much daily since
- always because I need to get somewhere, and I can now negotiate all
of Hampstead's hills without even raising a sweat.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:09:24 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sep 6, 7:27 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive
Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...igator%20L700%...

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard. Doesn't have all that dodgy brake
stuff, either. A reasonably heavy stop (say from 20mph in 5 seconds)
only needs to dissipate 3kJ at 600W, which is no problem at all to
dissipate in a pair of wheel rims.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Those brakes aren't dodgy, Don, they're hyper-competent; what I forgot
to add is that they have a built-in modulator. They stop the one-
eighth of a ton of me and the bike and light touring gear from thirty
kph in 11 feet. I know, because I chewed up a pair of tyres while I
practiced that one to perfection. But I agree with you, for casual use
those roller brakes are overkill.


I'm a great fan of "keep it simple" for things like bikes.


Me too - thumb the starter, hook a gear, give it a *big handful* and
realise, moments later, the flickering in the corner of your left eye is
the *traffic* on the inside lane...

:-P

Here's No. 2 son on my bike - all ginger and cautious; it was his first
time back on one in a couple of years and was doubtless fearful of a
'low speed drop' !!

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...GSX1400-01.wmv

On Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:12:51 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:09:24 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

On Sep 6, 7:27 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive
Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...igator%20L700%...

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard. Doesn't have all that dodgy brake
stuff, either. A reasonably heavy stop (say from 20mph in 5 seconds)
only needs to dissipate 3kJ at 600W, which is no problem at all to
dissipate in a pair of wheel rims.

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

Those brakes aren't dodgy, Don, they're hyper-competent; what I forgot
to add is that they have a built-in modulator. They stop the one-
eighth of a ton of me and the bike and light touring gear from thirty
kph in 11 feet. I know, because I chewed up a pair of tyres while I
practiced that one to perfection. But I agree with you, for casual use
those roller brakes are overkill.


I'm a great fan of "keep it simple" for things like bikes.


Me too - thumb the starter, hook a gear, give it a *big handful* and
realise, moments later, the flickering in the corner of your left eye is
the *traffic* on the inside lane...

I can take my bike places you can't take yours ;-)

Here's No. 2 son on my bike - all ginger and cautious; it was his first
time back on one in a couple of years and was doubtless fearful of a
'low speed drop' !!

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...GSX1400-01.wmv



That sort of riding looked like a guaranteed way to have a low speed
drop. I imagine he's a bit more fluent now?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Sep 6, 8:20 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:09:24 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:



On Sep 6, 7:27 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:27:41 -0700, Andre Jute
wrote:

Techieporn for you.

My Trek Navigator L700 "Smover"
Bicycle with Automatic Gearchange and Electronic Adaptive Suspension
delivered by Shimano Di2 Cyber Nexus Groupset

a photo essay by André Jute

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...igator%20L700%....

My Trek is the 3400 - nice sensible road bike. Looks very similar to
that, but without the chain guard.

I got my bike one January morning when I was feeling decidedly
post-chrismas and was on my way to the local gym to enrol. I walked
past the bike shop where a sale was on, and thought "hang on, this is
a much better idea than a stupid gym". So I walked in and had a chat
with the chap about what kind of uses I would be putting the bike to
around London - ending up with this one, and it has been perfect.

I was in a bike shop the other day, listening to the owner tell
another customer about the gyms, plural, he attends. I walked out
without buying anything and told my driver to take me to a real bike
shop, where the accents are less poncey but at least the management
rides the bikes they sell.

I rode it straight home up the hill to Hampstead, and arrive seeing
spots, and with tunnel vision. I've ridden it pretty much daily since
- always because I need to get somewhere, and I can now negotiate all
of Hampstead's hills without even raising a sweat.

No man, the idea is to raise a sweat (despite what I shall shortly
write in another post to twit Patrick for bragging intolerably about
his 100 mile rides). Though I must say I despise those fellows who
make their sweat smell worse than it already does by straining it
through Lycra. Cultured cyclists wear seersucker shirts...

d

--
Pearce Consultinghttp://www.pearce.uk.com

I thought your description of buying your bike and riding it home the
most humane thing you ever said, Don. In future I might even cut you
some slack on electronics now I have discovered a heart beats in there
somewhere.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Andre Jute wrote:

Those brakes aren't dodgy, Don, they're hyper-competent; what I forgot
to add is that they have a built-in modulator. They stop the one-
eighth of a ton of me and the bike and light touring gear from thirty
kph in 11 feet. I know, because I chewed up a pair of tyres while I
practiced that one to perfection. But I agree with you, for casual use
those roller brakes are overkill.

A fat man on a granny bike braking at over 1g!
Don't the laws of physics apply in Eire these days?

--
Eiron.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 08:42:58 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

Those brakes aren't dodgy, Don, they're hyper-competent; what I forgot
to add is that they have a built-in modulator. They stop the one-
eighth of a ton of me and the bike and light touring gear from thirty
kph in 11 feet. I know, because I chewed up a pair of tyres while I
practiced that one to perfection. But I agree with you, for casual use
those roller brakes are overkill.

A fat man on a granny bike braking at over 1g!
Don't the laws of physics apply in Eire these days?

Quite so. That comes out at 1.05g. Centre of mass combined with
wheelbase tell us that he performed the last 8 feet of that stop flat
on his face in the road. But that is a perfectly legitimate way of
stopping your bike.

Anyone who wants to do the sum the easy way just pop this

(30 kph)^2 / (2 * 11 ft) in g

into Google. I rarely use an other calculator these days.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com