Building my own valve amp
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...

**Far and away, the biggest variable with a valve amp is the output
transformer.

That's an exaggeration. I wouldn't say the difference was much, if at
all, bigger than that between a pentode EL34 output tube and a 300b
DHT.

I can't speak for amorphous core or 50% nickel variants, which may be
more dissimilar. But these are relatively rare and I doubt that you
were referring to them. Correct me if I'm wrong.


**You are wrong. Quality transformers are typically constructed using
grain oriented silicon steel, with many interleaves. Crappy transformers
(such as those often supplied with cheap, crappy Chinese valve amps) use
regular steel and few, if any interleaves. The best I've ever seen used
15 interleaves.

Trevor Wilson

Trevor Wilson

Trevor, why do you insist on answering a question that hasn't been asked?

**Andy asked if he was wrong. I responded accordingly.


The OP asked about building his own amp, so I still don't see how
listening to commercial amps has any bearing. For all we know, he has done
that.

The question wasn't even "what amp should I build?"

**See Jim's response. It is eloquent, accurate and concise.

Trevor Wilson

Building my own valve amp
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
**Which doesn't answer my question. Try again

Trevor, I have no idea who you are, but I think we should start with
some basics of communication.

**Let's do.

I have no reason to take orders from
you, so can I suggest that you pay some attention to how you speak to
posters?

**I see. So, you're telling me that is to be a one-sided conversation. I
write stuff and you proclaim it to be "bull****". Is that about it? My words
and questions are, somehow, not relevant?

For instance, in this case I would suggest "could you be more
specific in answering my question?"

Once we have established some basic communication skills, we may
profitably proceed to the content.

**This would be a 'pot, kettle, black' kind of moment.

I realise that my ideas regarding the judging of audio equipment may appear,
on the surface, to be unconventional (ie: Examine measurements and listen,
BEFORE purchase), but I can assure you, that we humans consider such an
approach to be completely logical, reasonable and rational.

Let me provide some examples:

* Buying a TV set? LOOK at some operating TV sets in the price range.
* Buying a car? DRIVE some vehicles in the price range.
* Buying a pair of speakers? LISTEN to some speaker in the price range.
* Buying an amplifier? LISTEN to some amplifiers in the price range.

It's not that difficult.

Trevor Wilson

Building my own valve amp
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


OK, Trevor's pontificating again....


I realise that my ideas regarding the judging of audio equipment may
appear, on the surface, to be unconventional (ie: Examine measurements
and listen, BEFORE purchase), but I can assure you, that we humans
consider such an approach to be completely logical, reasonable and
rational.

Let me provide some examples:

* Buying a TV set? LOOK at some operating TV sets in the price range.


Easy, but they won't necessarily look the same in your home as they do
in the shop. How many does the average Australian PITA have the local
shop deliver and set up/install *on approval* before he makes a choice?


* Buying a car? DRIVE some vehicles in the price range.


Easy, but even *serious* antipodean smartarses will end up getting
flogged whatever the salesman wants to shift. Reminds me that ISTR the
illustrious Pinky ended up with a funny-coloured 'ex-dem' Audi because
some salesman who was a lot smarter than he (Pinky) was let him (Pinky,
that is) think he was beating him up in some toughguy/hardcase deal!


* Buying a pair of speakers? LISTEN to some speaker in the price
range.


Easy, but only really works if you take them home - the usual in the UK
(I suspect) is 2 or 3 pairs on home demo. How many pairs would the same
PITA (as above) deem necessary - 20? 30?


* Buying an amplifier? LISTEN to some amplifiers in the price range.


Nice little bit of 'antipodean obfuscation' here - the thread is about
*building* an amp (like you didn't know) and you appear to have missed
out the *valve* bit....



It's not that difficult.


You also missed out the bit about shagging/test driving willing Sheilas
'til you found one that fitted - how many of those do you normally
expect to get through before you can draw up a short list...??

Building my own valve amp
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


OK, Trevor's pontificating again....


I realise that my ideas regarding the judging of audio equipment may
appear, on the surface, to be unconventional (ie: Examine measurements
and listen, BEFORE purchase), but I can assure you, that we humans
consider such an approach to be completely logical, reasonable and
rational.

Let me provide some examples:

* Buying a TV set? LOOK at some operating TV sets in the price range.


Easy, but they won't necessarily look the same in your home as they do in
the shop. How many does the average Australian PITA have the local shop
deliver and set up/install *on approval* before he makes a choice?


* Buying a car? DRIVE some vehicles in the price range.


Easy, but even *serious* antipodean smartarses will end up getting flogged
whatever the salesman wants to shift. Reminds me that ISTR the illustrious
Pinky ended up with a funny-coloured 'ex-dem' Audi because some salesman
who was a lot smarter than he (Pinky) was let him (Pinky, that is) think
he was beating him up in some toughguy/hardcase deal!


* Buying a pair of speakers? LISTEN to some speaker in the price range.


Easy, but only really works if you take them home - the usual in the UK (I
suspect) is 2 or 3 pairs on home demo. How many pairs would the same PITA
(as above) deem necessary - 20? 30?


* Buying an amplifier? LISTEN to some amplifiers in the price range.


Nice little bit of 'antipodean obfuscation' here - the thread is about
*building* an amp (like you didn't know) and you appear to have missed out
the *valve* bit....



It's not that difficult.


You also missed out the bit about shagging/test driving willing Sheilas
'til you found one that fitted - how many of those do you normally expect
to get through before you can draw up a short list...??

**I'll try to make it REAL simple for you:

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.

Trevor Wilson

Building my own valve amp
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


OK, Trevor's pontificating again....


I realise that my ideas regarding the judging of audio equipment may
appear, on the surface, to be unconventional (ie: Examine
measurements and listen, BEFORE purchase), but I can assure you,
that we humans consider such an approach to be completely logical,
reasonable and rational.

Let me provide some examples:

* Buying a TV set? LOOK at some operating TV sets in the price
range.


Easy, but they won't necessarily look the same in your home as they
do in the shop. How many does the average Australian PITA have the
local shop deliver and set up/install *on approval* before he makes a
choice?


* Buying a car? DRIVE some vehicles in the price range.


Easy, but even *serious* antipodean smartarses will end up getting
flogged whatever the salesman wants to shift. Reminds me that ISTR
the illustrious Pinky ended up with a funny-coloured 'ex-dem' Audi
because some salesman who was a lot smarter than he (Pinky) was let
him (Pinky, that is) think he was beating him up in some
toughguy/hardcase deal!


* Buying a pair of speakers? LISTEN to some speaker in the price
range.


Easy, but only really works if you take them home - the usual in the
UK (I suspect) is 2 or 3 pairs on home demo. How many pairs would the
same PITA (as above) deem necessary - 20? 30?


* Buying an amplifier? LISTEN to some amplifiers in the price range.


Nice little bit of 'antipodean obfuscation' here - the thread is
about *building* an amp (like you didn't know) and you appear to have
missed out the *valve* bit....



It's not that difficult.


You also missed out the bit about shagging/test driving willing
Sheilas 'til you found one that fitted - how many of those do you
normally expect to get through before you can draw up a short
list...??

**I'll try to make it REAL simple for you:

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.


That's eBay ****ed then....

(Do they know, I wonder?)

Building my own valve amp
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


**I'll try to make it REAL simple for you:

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.


That's eBay ****ed then....

**Wrong. There are a great many products available on eBay that are/have
been available in other places.

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.

Trevor Wilson

Building my own valve amp
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


OK, Trevor's pontificating again....



I realise that my ideas regarding the judging of audio equipment may
appear, on the surface, to be unconventional (ie: Examine measurements
and listen, BEFORE purchase), but I can assure you, that we humans
consider such an approach to be completely logical, reasonable and
rational.

Let me provide some examples:

* Buying a TV set? LOOK at some operating TV sets in the price range.


Easy, but they won't necessarily look the same in your home as they do in
the shop. How many does the average Australian PITA have the local shop
deliver and set up/install *on approval* before he makes a choice?



* Buying a car? DRIVE some vehicles in the price range.


Easy, but even *serious* antipodean smartarses will end up getting flogged
whatever the salesman wants to shift. Reminds me that ISTR the illustrious
Pinky ended up with a funny-coloured 'ex-dem' Audi because some salesman
who was a lot smarter than he (Pinky) was let him (Pinky, that is) think
he was beating him up in some toughguy/hardcase deal!



* Buying a pair of speakers? LISTEN to some speaker in the price range.


Easy, but only really works if you take them home - the usual in the UK (I
suspect) is 2 or 3 pairs on home demo. How many pairs would the same PITA
(as above) deem necessary - 20? 30?



* Buying an amplifier? LISTEN to some amplifiers in the price range.


Nice little bit of 'antipodean obfuscation' here - the thread is about
*building* an amp (like you didn't know) and you appear to have missed out
the *valve* bit....



It's not that difficult.


You also missed out the bit about shagging/test driving willing Sheilas
'til you found one that fitted - how many of those do you normally expect
to get through before you can draw up a short list...??


**I'll try to make it REAL simple for you:

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.

Trevor Wilson



Fine, no argument about that, but it has bugger all to do with the
original question, which was about BUILDING, not buying.

As I said, you are answering a question that has not been asked. I am
sure your answer is fine and correct for some other question, but not
this one.

As Jim said, no one can make any more specific suggestions until we know
more details, but all the OP wanted was info about building his own, and
forums that would be relivant to that.

--
Nick

Building my own valve amp
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

Fine, no argument about that, but it has bugger all to do with the
original question, which was about BUILDING, not buying.

**Only if Max intends building something that no one has ever built before.
I've built quite a few things over the years. Some I've listened to first.
Some, not. Of the ones I've listened to first, I have been 100% satisfied
with the result, because I LISTENED first. Of the stuff I built without
first hearing, I've been satified with some and extremely dissatisfied with
some. Buying/building without listening is a crap shoot.


As I said, you are answering a question that has not been asked. I am sure
your answer is fine and correct for some other question, but not this one.

As Jim said, no one can make any more specific suggestions until we know
more details, but all the OP wanted was info about building his own, and
forums that would be relivant to that.

**Indeed. The old adage still applies:

Listen before you buy/build.

Trevor Wilson

Building my own valve amp
 

**I see. So, you're telling me that is to be a one-sided conversation. I
write stuff and you proclaim it to be "bull****".

"Stuff"!!!!! You wrote that anyone who likes/uses SETs is an idiot. I
think you have to be a little less ingenuous and realise that when you
call
SET users "idiots" they are likely to respond with a few choice words
of their own.

**This would be a 'pot, kettle, black' kind of moment.

No, this is an "insult people and they respond in kind" realisation
moment.

I realise that my ideas regarding the judging of audio equipment may appear, on the surface, to be unconventional ie: Examine measurements and listen, BEFORE purchase)

How can you listen to a collection of parts you use in your design.
Let's say you use O-netics OPTs from Seattle, Lundahl interstages from
Sweden, some ECC40s bought on ebay from France and some Russian 6B4Gs
for output tubes. The rationale for this is that each of these parts
has been previously shown to sound good in equipment. But the chances
of hearing that lot in a shop are - well be my guest and chose an
infinitely small number.

but I can assure you, that we humans consider such an
approach to be completely logical, reasonable and rational.

Hang on here, don't get ahead of yourself. I'm a human - so do I
"consider" the same way you do? I think not.

Let me provide some examples:

Please do provide an example of how you can hear an as yet unbuilt
design consisting of the above (or other) componants.

* Buying an amplifier? LISTEN to some amplifiers in the price range.

It's not that difficult.

Trevor - dear chap - we're talking about BUILDING an amp here. How do
you hear an unbuilt amp? It's impossible, as others have already said.
What are you going to say next - go to sleep on a pile of bricks to
see if a design using them would make a good home?

Building my own valve amp
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


**I'll try to make it REAL simple for you:

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.


That's eBay ****ed then....

**Wrong. There are a great many products available on eBay that
are/have been available in other places.

If you can't hear it, don't buy it.


So 'wise', yet so stupid....