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Amplifier power
If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? |
Amplifier power
wrote in message ... If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZutcPUd_AVQ -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
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In article
, wrote: If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc. You would have to also define what - for you - was meant by "properly designed". e,g. some amplifiers have a high output impedance and/or a deliberately tailored response. Are you likely to wish the effects these might cause? Plus: The snag with "properly designed" that all real designs will have performance limitations, etc. Within those, two amps might deliver results you find indistinguishable. But with some speakers, or under some conditions, one might work fine whilst the other struggles. Plus: Some 'amps' may have an RIAA input (for LP). Others not. Would you need this or not? Would you require MC to be catered for, or not? So you would need to be more forthcoming about what you require the amp to do, and the circumstances in which it would have to perform. Giving us this would also help us to tell if you do wish to choose an amp... or just to start an argument. :-) Slainte, Jim -- Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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wrote in message
... If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you like to listen to it and the size of your listening room . If you had very efficient speakers - like Lowther PM6 units - with a sensitivity of 92dB/W or thereabouts you could probably get away with 10Wper channel. If they were/are more like the efficiency of a few modern units at, say, 82dB/W then by that process you would need 100W/channel to achieve the same sound level - 10dB being a factor of 10 times in terms of power. Given that many speakers are around 86-88dB/W then an amp of the order of something like 25-40W per channel is about right. You should have no difficulty finding an amp within that power in this range - look at those by NAD, Cambridge, Marantz, Denon, Harmon-Kardon, Sony, and Yamaha as examples, with www.richersounds.co.uk being a good starting web site. However do not be afraid to buy an amp of greater power - which actually you may find easier to do. You are unlikely to damage your speakers with too much power - you will hear the effects (usually 'cracking' on music peaks) long before you do them any damage - but it is very easy to blow them (specifically the tweeters) by having an underpowered amp and turning the wick up too much. (If you want an explanation of how this can happen just ask.) Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as classical or jazz, as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
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Woody wrote: It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you like to listen to it and the size of your listening room . Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max Sensitivity 91dB Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as classical or jazz, I do as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different. But do they? And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the amplifier. Phileas |
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"Graham." wrote: wrote in message ... If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZutcPUd_AVQ -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
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Woody wrote: wrote in message ... If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you like to listen to it and the size of your listening room . If you had very efficient speakers - like Lowther PM6 units - with a sensitivity of 92dB/W or thereabouts you could probably get away with 10Wper channel. If they were/are more like the efficiency of a few modern units at, say, 82dB/W then by that process you would need 100W/channel to achieve the same sound level - 10dB being a factor of 10 times in terms of power. Given that many speakers are around 86-88dB/W then an amp of the order of something like 25-40W per channel is about right. You should have no difficulty finding an amp within that power in this range - look at those by NAD, Cambridge, Marantz, Denon, Harmon-Kardon, Sony, and Yamaha as examples, with www.richersounds.co.uk being a good starting web site. However do not be afraid to buy an amp of greater power - which actually you may find easier to do. You are unlikely to damage your speakers with too much power - you will hear the effects (usually 'cracking' on music peaks) long before you do them any damage - but it is very easy to blow them (specifically the tweeters) by having an underpowered amp and turning the wick up too much. (If you want an explanation of how this can happen just ask.) Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as classical or jazz, as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
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"Eeyore" wrote in message ... wrote: If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? PLEASE DO NOT MULTI-POST ! NEVER DO IT AGAIN ! YOU SHOULD CROSS-POST SUCH QUESTIONS TO RELATED GROUPS SO *EVERYONE* CAN SEE THE THREAD AND THE ANSWERS AND YOU DON'T GET WILDLY CONTRARY ANSWERS. You just waste everyone's time with multi-posting and it really ****es ME off for one. Graham But SHOUTING and multiple posts which carry no contribution from oneself are perfectly OK. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
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"Graham." wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... wrote: If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? PLEASE DO NOT MULTI-POST ! NEVER DO IT AGAIN ! YOU SHOULD CROSS-POST SUCH QUESTIONS TO RELATED GROUPS SO *EVERYONE* CAN SEE THE THREAD AND THE ANSWERS AND YOU DON'T GET WILDLY CONTRARY ANSWERS. You just waste everyone's time with multi-posting and it really ****es ME off for one. Graham But SHOUTING and multiple posts which carry no contribution from oneself are perfectly OK. **** OFF. |
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wrote in message
... Woody wrote: It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you like to listen to it and the size of your listening room . Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max Sensitivity 91dB Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as classical or jazz, I do as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different. But do they? And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the amplifier. Phileas Put it like this, go listen to an ArCam amp followed by something like an Marantz or Denon and you will quickly notice the difference. ArCam to my eras are excessively bright with anything. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
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wrote in message ... If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain. Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different sonic characters and abilities. Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc. If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention to the big girls blouses of this group. Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either. Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had. This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable - thats the ability to churn out amperes! It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads, and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony from the late 80's and early 90's. First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters, then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads. Once you've found a model, look it up! Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing special. |
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geoff wrote: Eeyore wrote: wrote: If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? PLEASE DO NOT MULTI-POST ! NEVER DO IT AGAIN ! YOU SHOULD CROSS-POST SUCH QUESTIONS TO RELATED GROUPS SO *EVERYONE* CAN SEE THE THREAD AND THE ANSWERS AND YOU DON'T GET WILDLY CONTRARY ANSWERS. You just waste everyone's time with multi-posting and it really ****es ME off for one. Graham ... or he'll sue you. geoff For ****ing me off ? Pfft. Used to that. Phildo may be going to jail if he doesn't sharpen up though. Graham |
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In article , Once only
wrote: wrote in message ... If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain. Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different sonic characters and abilities. They can also turn out to be indistingushable when compared in a situation where the only basis the listener has to tell one from another would be the sound. Oddly, this seems to have happened on a number of occasions when those involved were convinced they *would* sound different. Yet when put to the test, they failed to show the ability to tell one from another. So the experimental evidence points to the 'myth' often being that amps 'sound different' which actually seem to be indistinguisable in appropriate use. The evidence seems to point to the idea that being able to read the name-label has an effect on the 'sound' for some people. :-) Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc. Yes, such things can affect the results. As others have explained, this also depends on choice of speakers, etc, etc, etc. :-) So the amp design needs to be appropriate for the conditions of use. Slainte, Jim -- Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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In article
, wrote: Woody wrote: It largely depends on the efficiency of your loudspeakers, the type of music to which you listen and (perhaps to a lesser extent) how loud you like to listen to it and the size of your listening room . Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max Sensitivity 91dB OK Above all, if you listen to music that requires details - such as classical or jazz, I do OK You haven't said anything about the size and acoustics of your room. This matters as the room can have a large effect on how much power you may need. Ditto for how loud you play the music. What amp do you use at present? Does it give obvious signs of clipping peak levels? Does it overheat? If neither, then the present power level is likely to be adequate. Also, if curious about the levels you use, buy a cheap sound pressure meter from someone like CPC or Maplin (much cheaper than a fancy amp) and do some measurements near your speakers and your normal listening position. Tell us the results. as against heavy metal or rock - then do try to at least listen to the amp in the shop before you buy it. Although they are all designed to achieve the same sonic end they do sound different. But do they? See elsewhere. As you will have discovered, some people are convinced that amps can be 'wine tasted' and generally produce audibly different sounds. However the experimental evidence - when gathered in ways designed to make people judge by sound, not name-label - tends show this belief to be unfounded in general, albeit with exceptions. And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the amplifier. Indeed. However that is a vastly harder problem when choosing speakers than amplifiers. And you seem to have chosen your speakers, so this can't be impossibly difficult. :-) Slainte, Jim -- Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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Graham,
don't waste time reading quoting and bad words from Eeyore... Gianluca |
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LAB wrote: Graham, don't waste time reading quoting and bad words from Eeyore... At least the thread is in both groups now. The OP was in breach of netiquette. Graham |
Amplifier power
Once only wrote: wrote in message If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain. Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different sonic characters and abilities. Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc. If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention to the big girls blouses of this group. Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either. Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had. This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable - thats the ability to churn out amperes! It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads, and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony from the late 80's and early 90's. First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters, then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads. Once you've found a model, look it up! Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing special. But don't buy antiques. No matter how well they were supposed to sound. All the electrolytic caps will need replacing and standards weren't as high then. Modern amplifiers are much better on the whole. cross-posted intentionally to rec.audio tech Graham |
Amplifier power
Jim Lesurf wrote: It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc. Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral climaxes can be loud. Digital sources - not vinyl. Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB) ... or just to start an argument. :-) I've been thinking I'd like to "upgrade" my 20yr old Audiolab 8000A (50W) in the near future. I was thinking of spending up to £1000 but if I don't need to spend that much I won't. Phileas |
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On Oct 13, 9:10*am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
As you will have discovered, some people are convinced that amps can be 'wine tasted' and generally produce audibly different sounds. However the experimental evidence - when gathered in ways designed to make people judge by sound, not name-label - tends show this belief to be unfounded in general, albeit with exceptions. And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the amplifier. Indeed. However that is a vastly harder problem when choosing speakers than amplifiers. And you seem to have chosen your speakers, so this can't be impossibly difficult. *:-) Well, the room in which I compared the speakers was quite a bit bigger than my actual listening room (11'x13'x8') so I'm not sure really whether I chose the best of the three I compared. They are probably too big for my room but then I don't need to have them very loud to "fill" it. This is the difficulty with comparing in shops. Phileas |
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On Oct 13, 6:14*pm, wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote: It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc. Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral climaxes can be loud. Digital sources - not vinyl. Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB) ... or just to start an argument. *:-) I've been thinking I'd like to "upgrade" my 20yr old Audiolab 8000A (50W) in the near future. I was thinking of spending up to £1000 but if I don't need to spend that much I won't. Phileas I should also mention that I was thinking of using a Benchmark DAC1 as a pre-amp (hence my post elsewhere on this group). So I'm thinking about a power amp. Is the Quad 909 needlessly powerful for example? I want a well built amp of sufficient power for my modestly sized room and quite sensitive speakers. Phileas |
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Eeyore wrote:
Once only wrote: wrote in message If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain. Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different sonic characters and abilities. Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc. If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention to the big girls blouses of this group. Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either. Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had. This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable - thats the ability to churn out amperes! It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads, and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony from the late 80's and early 90's. First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters, then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads. Once you've found a model, look it up! Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing special. But don't buy antiques. No matter how well they were supposed to sound. All the electrolytic caps will need replacing and standards weren't as high then. Modern amplifiers are much better on the whole. cross-posted intentionally to rec.audio tech Graham I have a 20 year old (at least) NAD 3020 - works perfectly but sounds distinctly soft/mellow compared to a newish SS amp, and indeed an even older Pioneer receiver. Is this a symptom of old caps, and/or poor design? Rob |
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Rob wrote: Eeyore wrote: Once only wrote: wrote in message If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain. Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different sonic characters and abilities. Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc. If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention to the big girls blouses of this group. Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either. Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had. This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable - thats the ability to churn out amperes! It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads, and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony from the late 80's and early 90's. First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters, then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads. Once you've found a model, look it up! Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing special. But don't buy antiques. No matter how well they were supposed to sound. All the electrolytic caps will need replacing and standards weren't as high then. Modern amplifiers are much better on the whole. cross-posted intentionally to rec.audio tech I have a 20 year old (at least) NAD 3020 - works perfectly but sounds distinctly soft/mellow compared to a newish SS amp, and indeed an even older Pioneer receiver. Is this a symptom of old caps, and/or poor design? I know the 3020 moderately well. It was very well regarded (and designed - I fact I met the designer) and should still sound at least decent today. At that age, recapping the electrolytic caps specifically is likely to be a good move. Especially if you're competent with a soldering iron yourself or have a friend who is. The parts won't cost much. You don't have the 'soft clip' engaged do you ? That would make it mellower. Also clean ALL the input and output sockets. Damn RCA / phono / Cinch crap ! Funnily enough, around the time of the 3020 I nearly worked as a designer for NAD. The deal breaker was that I wanted to do it on contract and they wanted me full time. I can still remember the excellent lunch they took me out for btw ! Super Italian. Graham |
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tony sayer wrote: I reckon you'd be well pushed to improve of the Audiolab excellent amplifier even at 20 years old:)).. You must be living in a very weird world then. Its design is utterly 'agricultural' by today's standards. It's barely any better than a decent semiconductor manufacturer's application note of that era. Frankly it's a joke. Plus any one you can find will need total re-capping of the electrolytics. Graham (pro-audio designer with 37 yrs experience) |
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Rob wrote: Eeyore wrote: Once only wrote: wrote in message If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which amp to buy? Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how do I determine this? No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain. Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different sonic characters and abilities. Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc. If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention to the big girls blouses of this group. Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either. Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had. This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable - thats the ability to churn out amperes! It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads, and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony from the late 80's and early 90's. First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters, then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads. Once you've found a model, look it up! Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing special. But don't buy antiques. No matter how well they were supposed to sound. All the electrolytic caps will need replacing and standards weren't as high then. Modern amplifiers are much better on the whole. cross-posted intentionally to rec.audio tech I have a 20 year old (at least) NAD 3020 - works perfectly but sounds distinctly soft/mellow compared to a newish SS amp, and indeed an even older Pioneer receiver. Is this a symptom of old caps, and/or poor design? Rob I believe I already answered this but the OP's multi-posting may have effed things up. It certainly wasn't poorly designed. In fact I have a great deal of respect for the designer, a Norwegian whose name eludes me now. He used to work for Dolby Labs btw at one time btw IIRC. I've have many hours of satisfactory listening through one at some friends' house through some Mission speakers too (when they still used decent SEAS units). Graham |
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Eeyore wrote:
LAB wrote: Graham, don't waste time reading quoting and bad words from Eeyore... At least the thread is in both groups now. The OP was in breach of netiquette. Now punishable by 6 months to 2 years.... geoff |
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geoff wrote: Eeyore wrote: LAB wrote: Graham, don't waste time reading quoting and bad words from Eeyore... At least the thread is in both groups now. The OP was in breach of netiquette. Now punishable by 6 months to 2 years.... Or garrotting. Graham |
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On 2008-10-13, Eeyore wrote:
wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote: It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc. Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral climaxes can be loud. Digital sources - not vinyl. Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB) An orchestra even in the auditorium can peak at over 120dB. Do you have a reference for this? I have been looking for credible sources for peak orchestral SPLs in the auditorium for a long while. I have quite a few health & safety measurements of very good credibility inside the orchestra and a few at the conductor's rostrum. However I have only semi-credible figures for places in the auditorium and they only go up to 109 dB SPL. -- John Phillips |
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John Phillips wrote: Eeyore wrote: wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote: It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc. Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral climaxes can be loud. Digital sources - not vinyl. Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB) An orchestra even in the auditorium can peak at over 120dB. Do you have a reference for this? I have been looking for credible sources for peak orchestral SPLs in the auditorium for a long while. It's a 'well known fact' amongst audio professionals. Google it. I have quite a few health & safety measurements of very good credibility inside the orchestra and a few at the conductor's rostrum. In other words completely useless because they haven't the tiniest clue what they're measuring. Thankfully or even orchestras would have to be banned from playing for HSE reasons. However I have only semi-credible figures for places in the auditorium and they only go up to 109 dB SPL. A or C weighted on fast or slow response ? The average dB meter is about as useful as a wet blanket when measuring either impulses or frankly most music. There is no correlation between industrial hearing damage levels as measured by a typical dB meter and music because the waveforms and wavefronts are WILDLY different. Graham p.s. I know what I'm talking about. Precious few do. But then I'm an audio professional. |
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Eeyore wrote...
Or garrotting. Isn't that having your Decca London retipped? -- Ken http://www.members.lycos.co.uk/buddyduck/ |
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On 14 Oct, 00:40, Eeyore
wrote: John Phillips wrote: Eeyore *wrote: wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote: It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc. Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral climaxes can be loud. Digital sources - not vinyl. Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB) An orchestra even in the auditorium can peak at over 120dB. Do you have a reference for this? *I have been looking for credible sources for peak orchestral SPLs in the auditorium for a long while. It's a 'well known fact' amongst audio professionals. Google it. I have quite a few health & safety measurements of very good credibility inside the orchestra and a few at the conductor's rostrum. In other words completely useless because they haven't the tiniest clue what they're measuring. Thankfully or even orchestras would have to be banned from playing for HSE reasons. However I have only semi-credible figures for places in the auditorium and they only go up to 109 dB SPL. A or C weighted on fast or slow response ? The average dB meter is about as useful as a wet blanket when measuring either impulses or frankly most music. There is no correlation between industrial hearing damage levels as measured by a typical dB meter and music because the waveforms and wavefronts are WILDLY different.. Graham p.s. I know what I'm talking about. Precious few do. But then I'm an audio professional.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Clearly then, you'll know that having two speakers increases the nominal sensitivity by 3dB for a central sound, and having them in an average living room gives you another 3dB or so of reverberant sound, so you can hit a 120dB peak from 91 db/watt speakers with about 23dB of amp power, which is 200 watts. Not trivial, but readily obtainable from many modern amps. |
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Amplifier power
In article
, wrote: On 14 Oct, 00:40, Eeyore wrote: John Phillips wrote: Eeyore wrote: wrote: An orchestra even in the auditorium can peak at over 120dB. Do you have a reference for this? I have been looking for credible sources for peak orchestral SPLs in the auditorium for a long while. It's a 'well known fact' amongst audio professionals. Google it. For some reason I have come to be wary of claims thrown around on the basis of being a "well known fact". That sometimes seems to mean, "Loads of people have been saying it to one another on the basis that someone else told them. They've been doing this for so long that no-one can recall who made it up in the first place." :-) In other words completely useless because they haven't the tiniest clue what they're measuring. Thankfully or even orchestras would have to be banned from playing for HSE reasons. However I have only semi-credible figures for places in the auditorium and they only go up to 109 dB SPL. IIRC I read an old article by John Crabbe a while ago that reported measurements. I can't recall details, but if I do I'll report them. Clearly then, you'll know that having two speakers increases the nominal sensitivity by 3dB for a central sound, and having them in an average living room gives you another 3dB or so of reverberant sound, so you can hit a 120dB peak from 91 db/watt speakers with about 23dB of amp power, which is 200 watts. Not trivial, but readily obtainable from many modern amps. FWIW The effect of room reverb in UK domestic rooms might be somewhat higher than a 3dB gain. I did some analysis of this a while ago (see Hi Fi News August 2008). Hard to give a figure as it will probably vary from room to room, but 3dB may be on the low side as an estimate of what is typical. IIRC some texts also give details that indicate well above 3dB for this. That said (again as discussed in the HFN article) there is a distinction between the actual instantaneous peak measured power, and the peak level perceived, due to the way human hearing tends to 'integrate' the effect of short term delayed reflections into one percieved peak. Slainte, Jim -- Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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