"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


Perhaps it won't but what I'm saying is that mobile broadband internet
radio will become more popular than portable radio receivers, whether AM,
FM or DAB. If adequate quality for the purpose is available at only
32kbps, then bandwidth is no bar to this developing.


Broadcasting covers large areas at low cost, mobile broadband covers small
areas at high cost. If you are right, then the mobile networks will have
serious problems in coping with the bandwidth demand within the allocated
radio spectrum. Unlike wire-based broadband you can't just run in extra
capacity, the only option is to further sub-divide the cells, which is very
expensive.

David.

In article , Serge Auckland
scribeth thus

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

From what I've heard in the industry its only the BBC who "wants"
T-DAB..

The commercial radio side just sees it as another expense they can do
without!, whereas the BBC has the licence payer to pay for it all for
them.....

From what I hear it's Ofcom who wants DAB, because they want to kill off
analogue :-(

You know, the idea that the government can make DAB the "primary network"
for radio seriously overestimates their power.

Well who's going to argue with Ofcom and the DMCS?..

Who's going to take any notice of Ofcom and DMCS? - I'm referring to the
buying and listening public here, most of whom have never heard of either.
The public wont buy DAB sets because DMCS and Ofcom want it, quite the
contrary. The public overwhelmingly want analogue radio to continue and no
government with it's eye on the next election will allow Ofcom to kill off
analogue radio if there isn't a viable alternative. Internet radio is
becoming increasingly popular, particularly for the "listen again" type of
services. If DAB is to make inroads it'll need to provide something the
public want. Neither Ofcom nor DMCS (nor the BBC for that matter) can make
the public buy DAB if it fails to deliver.

David.


Considering that Ofcom are still awarding 8 year Commercial FM licenses,

Beg to differ guv .. I don't think they are offering anymore FM licences
or extensions to existing FM services since the report the other day
with the exception of the community sector..

And they haven't worked out how to let them go on DAB MUX's at a price
they can afford yet.. Not that any seem to want to;!...


there's no likelihood of FM being turned off until 2017 at the earliest.
They are currently awarding a large number of 5 year Community Radio FM
licenses, so the prospects for FM to continue well into the future seem
clear. DAB will continue to be of minority interest until mainstream car
manufacturers start fitting DAB receivers as standard.

And anyone got a "clear as crystal" ball to see that happening anytime
soon;!..

With so many cars now
being fitted with "built-in" radios, the aftermarket for car radio upgrades
is shrinking, and in terms of the general public, the scope for upgrades to
a DAB car radio seem limited when cars are fitted with perfectly usable FM
sets, even where an upgrade is possible.

Indeed a fact thats often overlooked by those pushing the shagged out
old digital cow;!..

As mobile internet gets cheaper and more widespread, I think it more likely
that Joe Public will listen to Internet Radio on their mobile 'phone rather
than buy a DAB portable.

Well they might if they get the coverage as it ought be which is still
very poor in parts of East Anglia..

Till then theres always FM)...

S.


--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com


--
Tony Sayer

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
From what I've heard in the industry its only the BBC who "wants"
T-DAB..

Which industry? Equipment suppliers on both sides of the market are always
delighted with such things.

Equipment suppliers may well be seeing the money this things cost but
I'm referring to the industry that has to pay for them;(...


The commercial radio side just sees it as another expense they can do
without!, whereas the BBC has the licence payer to pay for it all for
them.....

Radio is already at saturation level so few if any *new* listeners would
be provided by a different format. All you might do is poach from another
one.

Who needs DAB anyway;?..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
BBC is biased towards DAB wrote:
I've already explained quite enough for most to understand. But you
decided to rubbish that.


Absolutely. You described your methodology of recording the samples as
follows:

"Some time ago I set up a test. Recorded the same clips from R1,3 and
4 off
DAB, FM and AM (AM using a Quad AM3 with proper aerial) Adjusted

Dave ..

Can you answer this question of -when- you did this please?.



levels
so they were subjectively the same."

Could you explain how you recorded R1, R3 and R4 via AM?

Which part of 'some time ago' needs explaining?

Just answer the question, its quite reasonable?..

--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Serge Auckland
scribeth thus

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

From what I've heard in the industry its only the BBC who "wants"
T-DAB..

The commercial radio side just sees it as another expense they can do
without!, whereas the BBC has the licence payer to pay for it all for
them.....

From what I hear it's Ofcom who wants DAB, because they want to kill off
analogue :-(

You know, the idea that the government can make DAB the "primary
network"
for radio seriously overestimates their power.

Well who's going to argue with Ofcom and the DMCS?..

Who's going to take any notice of Ofcom and DMCS? - I'm referring to the
buying and listening public here, most of whom have never heard of
either.
The public wont buy DAB sets because DMCS and Ofcom want it, quite the
contrary. The public overwhelmingly want analogue radio to continue and
no
government with it's eye on the next election will allow Ofcom to kill
off
analogue radio if there isn't a viable alternative. Internet radio is
becoming increasingly popular, particularly for the "listen again" type
of
services. If DAB is to make inroads it'll need to provide something the
public want. Neither Ofcom nor DMCS (nor the BBC for that matter) can
make
the public buy DAB if it fails to deliver.

David.


Considering that Ofcom are still awarding 8 year Commercial FM licenses,

Beg to differ guv .. I don't think they are offering anymore FM licences
or extensions to existing FM services since the report the other day
with the exception of the community sector..

And they haven't worked out how to let them go on DAB MUX's at a price
they can afford yet.. Not that any seem to want to;!...


there's no likelihood of FM being turned off until 2017 at the earliest.
They are currently awarding a large number of 5 year Community Radio FM
licenses, so the prospects for FM to continue well into the future seem
clear. DAB will continue to be of minority interest until mainstream car
manufacturers start fitting DAB receivers as standard.

And anyone got a "clear as crystal" ball to see that happening anytime
soon;!..

With so many cars now
being fitted with "built-in" radios, the aftermarket for car radio
upgrades
is shrinking, and in terms of the general public, the scope for upgrades
to
a DAB car radio seem limited when cars are fitted with perfectly usable FM
sets, even where an upgrade is possible.

Indeed a fact thats often overlooked by those pushing the shagged out
old digital cow;!..

As mobile internet gets cheaper and more widespread, I think it more
likely
that Joe Public will listen to Internet Radio on their mobile 'phone
rather
than buy a DAB portable.

Well they might if they get the coverage as it ought be which is still
very poor in parts of East Anglia..

Till then theres always FM)...

S.


--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com


--
Tony Sayer



I thought I saw a Press Release from Ofcom just a few days ago saying Star
FM in Cambridge had either been awarded a further 8 year license, or were
being fast-tracked as no-one else had applied. I also recall a station in
Surrey having their license renewed recently. Did I imagine it? Could be, I
get easily confused these days.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"David Looser" wrote in message

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


Perhaps it won't but what I'm saying is that mobile broadband
internet
radio will become more popular than portable radio receivers,
whether AM,
FM or DAB. If adequate quality for the purpose is available at only
32kbps, then bandwidth is no bar to this developing.


Broadcasting covers large areas at low cost, mobile broadband covers
small
areas at high cost.


There are broadcast standards for the mobile phone networks, you know.
There's teh MBMS standard for 3G now, and the upgrade of that
(evolved-MBMS, or eMBMS) isn't long away, and that includes large-area
coverage using single-frequency networks, like what DAB uses.


If you are right, then the mobile networks will have
serious problems in coping with the bandwidth demand within the
allocated
radio spectrum.


No, they could just deploy eMBMS.


Unlike wire-based broadband you can't just run in extra
capacity, the only option is to further sub-divide the cells, which
is
very expensive.


eMBMS can cover multiple cells.




--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

The adoption of DAB was the most incompetent technical
decision ever made in the history of UK broadcasting:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/da...ion_of_dab.htm

I thought I saw a Press Release from Ofcom just a few days ago saying Star
FM in Cambridge had either been awarded a further 8 year license, or were
being fast-tracked as no-one else had applied. I also recall a station in
Surrey having their license renewed recently. Did I imagine it? Could be, I
get easily confused these days.



Yes that was a licence "renewal" of an existing station.. not a "new"
licenced station as such...
S.


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
BBC is biased towards DAB wrote:
so it would mean
using their computer.


Wi-Fi Internet radio doesn't require your computer to be switched on
at all. Shows how little you know about it.

Most would consider Wi-Fi to be part of a computer installation.


Which probably isn't in the best place for using
while in the kitchen. Where many do listen to the radio. Same as the
bathroom. But if you live in one room it makes little difference.


I have a Wi-Fi Internet radio in the kitchen - have done for getting
on for 2 years, and I wouldn't want anything less - vast range of
choice, better audio quality, and you can listen to your own music
streamed from your PC.

With that PC switched off?

Make up your mind.

--
*I'm planning to be spontaneous tomorrow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
BBC is biased towards DAB wrote:
I came up with the idea that led to the design of DAB+,

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah...

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
"Some time ago I set up a test. Recorded the same clips from R1,3 and
4 off
DAB, FM and AM (AM using a Quad AM3 with proper aerial) Adjusted

Dave ..

Can you answer this question of -when- you did this please?.

I'm afraid I can't give you the exact date. But not long after DAB
started.

levels
so they were subjectively the same."

Could you explain how you recorded R1, R3 and R4 via AM?

Which part of 'some time ago' needs explaining?

Just answer the question, its quite reasonable?..

No question from our DAB 'expert' is ever reasonable. They are all loaded.

--
*Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.