In article , David Looser
wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...

--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital".

Or those who think vinyl is better because it's analogue.

They
don't know why but think they are expected to say it is better.

As you said.

I would love to see vinyl recorded with low bitrates and
compression/limiting.

Vinyl is analogue, so any reference to "bitrates" is meaningless.

Not necessarily. As an information channel, Vinyl LP should have a Shannon
bandwidth expressible in bits per second. The difficulty is that the
channel behaviour in such a case is limited by distortion in quite a
complex manner, so determining the practical value is difficult.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , David Looser
wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...


I would love to see vinyl recorded with low bitrates and
compression/limiting.

Vinyl is analogue, so any reference to "bitrates" is meaningless.

Not necessarily.

*In the context* it is meaningless. Clive talked about "vinyl recorded with
low bitrates", now what does *that* mean? Since vinyl is analogue we can
record with a reduced bandwidth, or with inferior signal-to-noise, but we
can't do digital compression, which seems to be what Clive was trying to
imply.

David.

Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , David Looser

[snip]

Vinyl is analogue, so any reference to "bitrates" is meaningless.

Not necessarily. As an information channel, Vinyl LP should have a Shannon
bandwidth expressible in bits per second. The difficulty is that the
channel behaviour in such a case is limited by distortion in quite a
complex manner, so determining the practical value is difficult.

A (plausible?) attempt at an answer to this is at :-

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...hp/t35530.html

This does ignore any affects of distortion. To obtain a "ball park"
understanding of the different resolutions of vinyl and CD I would start by
assuming vinyl distortion to be small, but then it is a long time since I
last had anything to do with Shannon's law.

I did see the Gadget Show demo, the question it left me with was how
accurately they had matched the sound levels of the three samples.

--
David Pitt

In article ,
Clive wrote:
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital". They don't know why but think they are expected to say it is
better.

I've heard plenty say there are people like that but I've yet to meet one.

I would love to see vinyl recorded with low bitrates and
compression/limiting. Why not record a MP3 track straight to vinyl and
listen to the difference.

Could you explain more fully? Vinyl adds distortion. It's inherent in the
system. So any signal recorded on it will always sound different from the
original.

DABradio is equivalent to a good quality MW
mono signal with restricted audio frequencies.

MW cuts off at 4.5kHz. DAB at least 15kHz.

You're perfectly entitled not to like DAB but get the facts straight.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
Caught the end of it where they were comparing MP3 CD and LP. Same
piece of music. Comment about vinyl was analogue must sound better than
digital as it contains all the information rather than just samples.
Wonder what their sound recordist thought about that. ;-)

Do sound recordists normally know about and understand the Sampling
Theorem, etc? Clearly it isn't part of the education for programme
presenters. :-)


They both sort of agreed the MP3 sounded best..

Less is more, eh? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
Caught the end of it where they were comparing MP3 CD and LP. Same
piece of music. Comment about vinyl was analogue must sound better than
digital as it contains all the information rather than just samples.
Wonder what their sound recordist thought about that. ;-)

Do sound recordists normally know about and understand the Sampling
Theorem, etc? Clearly it isn't part of the education for programme
presenters. :-)

I was more referring to the improvment in sound as recorded by the
average pro VTR when things went digital.


They both sort of agreed the MP3 sounded best..

Less is more, eh? :-)

I missed the whole piece but it seems likely that MP3 originated from a CD
anyway. I doubt a low budget prog like this would have had access to
master recordings.

Slainte,

Jim

--
*No I haven't stolen it , I'm just a **** driver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I was listening to a bit of a naff sounding mp 3 of some guitar music the
other day when a friend said how realistic it sounded. I said he must have
some strange guitars round his place as the phase problems of mp3 were all
too obvious in the rythmic swizzling and change in tone etc. I think it was
48kbits or something like that.

I really cannot listen to internet stations like Wave as these effects are
so headache inducing.
Some of the win media 64kbit streams are passable, but not great.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
Caught the end of it where they were comparing MP3 CD and LP. Same
piece of music. Comment about vinyl was analogue must sound better than
digital as it contains all the information rather than just samples.
Wonder what their sound recordist thought about that. ;-)

Do sound recordists normally know about and understand the Sampling
Theorem, etc? Clearly it isn't part of the education for programme
presenters. :-)


They both sort of agreed the MP3 sounded best..

Less is more, eh? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html