There is an interesting thing here of course, that as people get more adept
at removing bits of information and yet making it sound better, could we be
seeing the digital equivelent of why some say vinyl is better. What I mean
is, if you can identify the distortion or missing info in vinyl that makes
it sound better than what is perfect, then this could be added to an mp3 to
make it sound more like vinyl!

Its all very subjective, after all. Some people claim they like the ound of
Real Audio streams, but then maybe they are just deaf!

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Caught the end of it where they were comparing MP3 CD and LP. Same piece
of music. Comment about vinyl was analogue must sound better than digital
as it contains all the information rather than just samples. Wonder what
their sound recordist thought about that. ;-)

Missed the beginning of the piece so don't know what they made the MP3
from. If they even said. They did say it was at the highest sampling rate.

They both sort of agreed the MP3 sounded best..

--
*OK, so what's the speed of dark? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
There is an interesting thing here of course, that as people get more
adept at removing bits of information and yet making it sound better,
could we be seeing the digital equivelent of why some say vinyl is better.
What I mean is, if you can identify the distortion or missing info in
vinyl that makes it sound better than what is perfect, then this could be
added to an mp3 to make it sound more like vinyl!

Its all very subjective, after all. Some people claim they like the ound
of Real Audio streams, but then maybe they are just deaf!

Brian

--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital". They
don't know why but think they are expected to say it is better.
I would love to see vinyl recorded with low bitrates and
compression/limiting.
Why not record a MP3 track straight to vinyl and listen to the difference.
DABradio is equivalent to a good quality MW mono signal with restricted
audio
frequencies.

"Clive" wrote in message
...

--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital".

Or those who think vinyl is better because it's analogue.

They
don't know why but think they are expected to say it is better.

As you said.

I would love to see vinyl recorded with low bitrates and
compression/limiting.

Vinyl is analogue, so any reference to "bitrates" is meaningless. But of
course all records have always used compression and limiting. It's only a
matter of how and how much. Pop 45s have always had masses of compression.

Why not record a MP3 track straight to vinyl and listen to the difference.

Eh? what are you talking about?

DABradio is equivalent to a good quality MW mono signal

No such thing. MW radio is universally crap these days.

with restricted
audio
frequencies.

DAB has about 3 times the bandwidth of MW.

David.

David Looser wrote:

"Clive" wrote in message

--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital".

Or those who think vinyl is better because it's analogue.

Some people just don't 'get it'. The inherent problems with vinyl pressing and
playback make any deficiencies with CD look minute.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


David Looser wrote:

"Clive" wrote in message

--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital".

Or those who think vinyl is better because it's analogue.

Some people just don't 'get it'. The inherent problems with vinyl pressing
and
playback make any deficiencies with CD look minute.


Agreed. But it is the way that the potential of CD is
abused that leads people to the false impression that
vinyl is better.

There are countless examples, many of which have been
discussed on this and other groups. Buy both a vinyl pressing
and a CD of the Ray Charles/Count Basie recording "Ray Sings,
Basie Swings" (issued 2006) Compare them carefully, on good
equipment, and then come back here and tell us which you prefer
and why.



Regards
Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
...


David Looser wrote:

"Clive" wrote in message

--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds
better because it is
"digital".

Or those who think vinyl is better because it's
analogue.

Some people just don't 'get it'. The inherent problems
with vinyl pressing
and
playback make any deficiencies with CD look minute.


Agreed. But it is the way that the potential of CD is
abused that leads people to the false impression that
vinyl is better.

There are countless examples, many of which have been
discussed on this and other groups. Buy both a vinyl
pressing
and a CD of the Ray Charles/Count Basie recording "Ray
Sings,
Basie Swings" (issued 2006) Compare them carefully, on
good
equipment, and then come back here and tell us which you
prefer
and why.



Regards
Iain

It is not just the CD but the SACD. When you have a
digitally remastered and produced album and then make the LP
sound better there is a problem here somewhere and it is not
a format one ;-)

BTW Iain have you had the chance to discuss this with any of
your peers in the industry? I would be very interested on
what their opinions are.

Cheers TT

"TT" wrote in message
. au...


It is not just the CD but the SACD. When you have a digitally remastered
and produced album and then make the LP sound better there is a problem
here somewhere and it is not a format one ;-)

Well, the problem is not in the format either. It is a simple task,
as Davids points out, to make a digital copy of a vinyl pressing from
which it is indistinguishable. Many of us here have done that.

The problems start in post production and trying to meet the
demands of what the marketing people think the public want.

BTW Iain have you had the chance to discuss this with any of your peers in
the industry? I would be very interested on what their opinions are.

I have mentioned it to a couple of people in passing. No-one
seemed surprised. One mentioned "horses for courses" implying
that the quality requirements for an expensive limited edition vinyl
pressing and a CD which most people listen to with earbuds,
were different.((

This is the first time that I have come across a CD even bordering
on the the jazz category which has been subjected to this kind of
processing. Although it is not extreme, having heard the vinyl the
CD is not so pleasing.


Iain

David Looser wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
--
It's similar to people who think DABradio sounds better because it is
"digital".

Or those who think vinyl is better because it's analogue.

They
don't know why but think they are expected to say it is better.

As you said.

I would love to see vinyl recorded with low bitrates and
compression/limiting.

Vinyl is analogue, so any reference to "bitrates" is meaningless. But of
course all records have always used compression and limiting. It's only a
matter of how and how much. Pop 45s have always had masses of compression.

Why not record a MP3 track straight to vinyl and listen to the difference.

Eh? what are you talking about?


What can be done, if you have the time and inclination, is record vinyl
to a digital file. It then becomes digital.

As to why people want to do this . . . well, a friend has asked me to
record some vinyl to digital, and then CD, so her mum can listen to the
music. Brass band music - Black Dyke Mills Band, 1968. Quality seems
pretty good to me - used the latest version of Audacity, very good
indeed IMO.

HTH

Rob

"Rob" wrote in message
...
David Looser wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...

Why not record a MP3 track straight to vinyl and listen to the
difference.

Eh? what are you talking about?


What can be done, if you have the time and inclination, is record vinyl to
a digital file. It then becomes digital.

Well indeed, but that is a very different thing from recording "a MP3 track
to vinyl". I haven't got a clue what Clive thinks that means, he probably
doesn't either.

As to why people want to do this . . . well, a friend has asked me to
record some vinyl to digital, and then CD, so her mum can listen to the
music. Brass band music - Black Dyke Mills Band, 1968. Quality seems
pretty good to me - used the latest version of Audacity, very good indeed
IMO.


I've often done that myself (using Cool Edit). As well as being more
convenient to listen to it also means that I can get rid of a lot of the
clicks and pops. Apart from that, though, there is no discernable difference
to the sound quality between the LP direct, and the CD copy.

David.

David Looser wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
David Looser wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...

Why not record a MP3 track straight to vinyl and listen to the
difference.
Eh? what are you talking about?

What can be done, if you have the time and inclination, is record vinyl to
a digital file. It then becomes digital.

Well indeed, but that is a very different thing from recording "a MP3 track
to vinyl". I haven't got a clue what Clive thinks that means, he probably
doesn't either.

As to why people want to do this . . . well, a friend has asked me to
record some vinyl to digital, and then CD, so her mum can listen to the
music. Brass band music - Black Dyke Mills Band, 1968. Quality seems
pretty good to me - used the latest version of Audacity, very good indeed
IMO.


I've often done that myself (using Cool Edit). As well as being more
convenient to listen to it also means that I can get rid of a lot of the
clicks and pops. Apart from that, though, there is no discernable difference
to the sound quality between the LP direct, and the CD copy.


I'd probably agree, although add to the mix the timeless charm of vinyl
spinning and musty record sleeves, and the aural experience goes up a
notch ;-)

I've just started using the noise reduction on Audacity - I've no real
idea what I'm doing, but it seems to work very well. Settings are noise
reduction (dB - I use 24), frequency smoothing (150Hz) and attack/delay
(0.15s), with data generated from 5s or so between track mush.

Rob