"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:


snippage


Sure - total immersion in a battle scene/storm/earthquake/road
race/whatever
is one thing but I don't want *immersion* into the music! The
objective
of a
good music playback system is to put you in the auditorium - not into
the
orchestra or to put the orchestra in your room, all about you!!

Who says that's what classical SACDs do? Aren't you assuming the worst
case? How about the three-channel SACDs of golden-age RCA recordings?
If
the orchestra's all about you, your center channel's in the wrong
place!


I would have no problem at all with 3 channel stereo SACDs for music -
it's
the *surround* bit (ie the 'rears') that I don't like to contemplate!

Just a little reverb is all. Nothing to be scared of. If you 'hear' it,
it's too loud.



Don't need it - the whole point of 'valves and vinyl' (on horns) for music
is that it already has all the 'air' you need!

(FX boxes with dial-in 'concert hall', 'warehouse', 'bandstand', 'whatever'
reverb/delay settings ain't my bag, baby! ;-)



Very spooky at the time !!

And at home one can turn the "rumble of doom" down if wanted.


But not the thunderous rumble of a big spaceship in space or it just
wouldn't look 'right'....

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:


Hi Def *video* is a completely different story - basically reverse
everything above and you can see why HDTV and Blu-ray is here to stay.
Bigger and better is easy enough for anyone to see and the the bigger
you do
get, the more resolution you need. Doesn't hurt also that and HD video
is
*constantly* being advertised in the media you are watching, on the
equipment you are (or would be) watching it on!

Yes, I agree the introduction was botched.

Properly done, surround is a step up.


Not for me it's not - I don't much care for it with movies* other than
the 'HD' soundtracks are so far ahead of the basic 'DD 5.1' they simply
can't be ignored and *never* for music! For me, half the point of a good
'stereo' (solid) soundstage is that at times, some of the instruments are
way back *over there* like they were in the superb Shostakovich Symph No.
8 I played the other evening - which I am certain was a two mic 'Russian'
recording, despite being described as 'A First American Recording' on the
sleeve....


*Total immersion scenes like the landing scene and various anti-tank
battles in Saving Private Ryan are an exception; I have terrified
visitors with them, with the volume turned right up and a 120 inch
projected picture - they stand there with *slapped faces*!! @:-)


I can't even cope with stereo on TV. A 3m wide audio stage with a 1.5m
wide video stage is all wrong. As to a surround audio stage when the
picture is all in front is even more wrong. I watch TV with 'speakers
directly either side of the picture. Actually prefer mono on TV, then the
sound comes out of the screen.


I agree and a good two-channel stereo (with a sub, as of about 20 minutes
ago) will do me but the *total immersion mayhem* scenes are very impressive!
You are also not wrong about the silly big sound/small image imbalance - is
why my preferred (normal) viewing is a big sound with a 6 foot wide image!!

And the voices *always* come straight out of their mouths!!



On the other hand, surround sound for classical music is fine if the
surround is used for hall ambiance, or for effects as composed, like
Palestrina's vespers which had various small choirs arranged round the
hall. What doesn't work is phantom images created by pan-potting, as
phantom images don't form to the sides, and less well at the back.


I'd sooner listen to a mono Roberts portable (and frequently do) than to all
that BS done badly!

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

I've recently disclovered 'dual mono' fills out the listening area with
'more' sound (other than just turning the wick up) which is still mono,
but
you lose the nice, compact filesizes!!

My surround receiver has a "stereo" mode that's really mono to all
channels!


All individual channels on any amp are *mono*!!

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:



Hah! Prompts me to post this heads-up for anyone wanting to go Blu-ray
(not
region-free though):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-BDPS360...0027FFX4O/ref=
sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261674720&sr=1-1

I've just grabbed one of these - 40 quid cheaper than they were a week or
so
ago and still 20 quid cheaper than other online sellers who currently
list
them but probably haven't got any!

Yes, those prices are dropping. That success would be unimaginable
without the widespread availability of hi-def tv displays.


Absolutely. You could almost go further and say HD *will* succeed because
it's fast becoming the case that there's no available alternative!



Happy punters (lots and lots) means more to even consumer electronics
*Ubergiants* than impressing a handful of techno****s with flashy specs
and
unnecessarily 'audiophile' componentry....

Doesn't mean you can't have both! Bose and Bang and Olufsen probably
have happy customers.


Ooh, but can they though - produce for both ends of the 'hifi buying'
spectrum, that is?

Various reading and browsing leads me to believe that even firms like Sony
struggled to convince the 'high end boys' that their 'audiophile' ranges
are/were up to the standards of overpriced 'boutique audio' from UK (and now
Chinese) *cottage industry* manufacturers and that ground-breaking,
industry-leading firms with humble origins like Lucky Goldstar can suffer
from a lingering (but rapidly diminishing) association with their earlier,
cheap and (in some cases) fairly nasty products!!

In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:


snippage


Sure - total immersion in a battle scene/storm/earthquake/road
race/whatever
is one thing but I don't want *immersion* into the music! The
objective
of a
good music playback system is to put you in the auditorium - not into
the
orchestra or to put the orchestra in your room, all about you!!

Who says that's what classical SACDs do? Aren't you assuming the worst
case? How about the three-channel SACDs of golden-age RCA recordings?
If
the orchestra's all about you, your center channel's in the wrong
place!


I would have no problem at all with 3 channel stereo SACDs for music -
it's
the *surround* bit (ie the 'rears') that I don't like to contemplate!

Just a little reverb is all. Nothing to be scared of. If you 'hear' it,
it's too loud.



Don't need it - the whole point of 'valves and vinyl' (on horns) for music
is that it already has all the 'air' you need!

(FX boxes with dial-in 'concert hall', 'warehouse', 'bandstand', 'whatever'
reverb/delay settings ain't my bag, baby! ;-)

I prefer recordings with real hall ambience, but the ear is easily
fooled.

Very spooky at the time !!

And at home one can turn the "rumble of doom" down if wanted.


But not the thunderous rumble of a big spaceship in space or it just
wouldn't look 'right'....

That can be fun, but in space no one can hear you rumble!

Stephen

In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

I've recently disclovered 'dual mono' fills out the listening area with
'more' sound (other than just turning the wick up) which is still mono,
but
you lose the nice, compact filesizes!!

My surround receiver has a "stereo" mode that's really mono to all
channels!


All individual channels on any amp are *mono*!!

Okay. This mode feeds the same mono signal to all the channels.

Stephen

In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:



Hah! Prompts me to post this heads-up for anyone wanting to go Blu-ray
(not
region-free though):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-BDPS360...p/B0027FFX4O/r
ef=
sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261674720&sr=1-1

I've just grabbed one of these - 40 quid cheaper than they were a week or
so
ago and still 20 quid cheaper than other online sellers who currently
list
them but probably haven't got any!

Yes, those prices are dropping. That success would be unimaginable
without the widespread availability of hi-def tv displays.


Absolutely. You could almost go further and say HD *will* succeed because
it's fast becoming the case that there's no available alternative!

The market for standard definition analog tvs in the US has evaporated.

Happy punters (lots and lots) means more to even consumer electronics
*Ubergiants* than impressing a handful of techno****s with flashy specs
and
unnecessarily 'audiophile' componentry....

Doesn't mean you can't have both! Bose and Bang and Olufsen probably
have happy customers.


Ooh, but can they though - produce for both ends of the 'hifi buying'
spectrum, that is?

Maybe, maybe not, but they can sell product without resorting to
specmanship and flashy looks. Well, tradition hi-fi styling.

Various reading and browsing leads me to believe that even firms like Sony
struggled to convince the 'high end boys' that their 'audiophile' ranges
are/were up to the standards of overpriced 'boutique audio' from UK (and now
Chinese) *cottage industry* manufacturers and that ground-breaking,
industry-leading firms with humble origins like Lucky Goldstar can suffer
from a lingering (but rapidly diminishing) association with their earlier,
cheap and (in some cases) fairly nasty products!!

Huh? Sony has always had respected high-end digital products. LG doesn't
have high-end audio that I know of, while their tvs are everywhere.

Stephen

"MiNe 109" wrote


Yes, those prices are dropping. That success would be unimaginable
without the widespread availability of hi-def tv displays.


Absolutely. You could almost go further and say HD *will* succeed because
it's fast becoming the case that there's no available alternative!

The market for standard definition analog tvs in the US has evaporated.


I understand that it is simply not possible to buy an SD TV in the UK these
days??


Various reading and browsing leads me to believe that even firms like
Sony
struggled to convince the 'high end boys' that their 'audiophile' ranges
are/were up to the standards of overpriced 'boutique audio' from UK (and
now
Chinese) *cottage industry* manufacturers and that ground-breaking,
industry-leading firms with humble origins like Lucky Goldstar can suffer
from a lingering (but rapidly diminishing) association with their
earlier,
cheap and (in some cases) fairly nasty products!!

Huh? Sony has always had respected high-end digital products.


Not so much in the UK, I think.



LG doesn't
have high-end audio that I know of, while their tvs are everywhere.


Yes - LG and Samsung are a mighty force in the 'AV' world!

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith G" wrote:



Don't need it - the whole point of 'valves and vinyl' (on horns) for
music
is that it already has all the 'air' you need!

(FX boxes with dial-in 'concert hall', 'warehouse', 'bandstand',
'whatever'
reverb/delay settings ain't my bag, baby! ;-)

I prefer recordings with real hall ambience, but the ear is easily
fooled.

Very spooky at the time !!

And at home one can turn the "rumble of doom" down if wanted.


But not the thunderous rumble of a big spaceship in space or it just
wouldn't look 'right'....

That can be fun, but in space no one can hear you rumble!


They can if you touch helmets while 'rumbling' apparently!

Oh well, it's nearly Christmas Day - time for a little finger food and a
glass and watch a movie (Ichi) on the 'big screen'!!

(We're a little on the 'no longer young enough side' to be out partying!!
;-)

Have a Happy Christmas!!

@:-{

(Santa Man!?)

Keith G said...

You are also not wrong about the silly big sound/small image imbalance - is
why my preferred (normal) viewing is a big sound with a 6 foot wide image!!

Not sure if I agree about it being silly, for about a month I've been
trying precisely that: 28" screen and 10 feet wide sound.
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyk.../nettocam.html
I did have the speakers as close as possible to the TV before.
The new arrangement work quite well for both TV and music.

And the voices *always* come straight out of their mouths!!

Ditto here, but "noises off" are most obviously way off over there.

I've also been investigating the "Auto Volume" feature on the TV,
basically it is a compander, lifting low level and suppressing loud
sounds. It's very heavy handed and the effect on music is laughable but
it works well on some programs for late night listening.On speech radio
everybodytalks in a subdued monotone, rather like effect of the very
low bit depth digital radio which I did a lot of listening to in the
70's.
http://jproc.ca/crypto/bid150.html

--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/