In article ,
Phil Allison wrote:

"Laurence Payne"
"Dave Plowman (News)"


My brother is an elder of the kirk

I suggest the mic becomes the
ministers personal responsibility. He's the one who really CARES if
he's heard, after all. And he's not an idiot.


** ROTFL !!

Dave's brother is likely to be the biggest IDIOT on earth.

Stupidity and ASD runs in families you know !!!

Being a good Christian and a teacher of maths before retiring he's
probably seen plenty like you at or before they were sent to the funny
farm, and would have compassion.

I'm neither. When did you escape? And how? Is your country so short of
money it can't look after the likes of you?



.... Phi

--
*If at first you don't succeed, try management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article
, Arny
Krueger wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

Not an idiot but rather lacking in technical skills.

Not unusual among churchmen of middle age and older.

I
know it's hard to believe, but some just simply haven't.
My brother could easily take charge of routine
replacement of rechargeables say every few months - but
not changing batteries for every service.

Figure on a battery change every 2 hours of actual use,
to be on the safe side.

Good grief.

Tellin' it like it is, boss.

I've never done that for live TV shows and
think it a nonsense for a church service. You
occasionally get dud alkalines so it's never a good idea
to rely on putting new ones in just before required. On a
live show I'd always have then all up and running about
half an hour before required to make sure there's no duff
cells. And the very worst pro ones last about 5 hours.

IME rechargables are more complex for people to manage
than the standard use and pitch types.

Most are use to putting a cordless phone back in its
cradle these days so something that simple was what I was
hoping for.

Dream on!

Leading source of lack of predictabiliy of battery state
is the transmitter being inadevertanly left on.

Yes - but the minister will have a pattern of taking off
his robes etc after finishing and the mic at the same
time. And a decent charger should be able to cope with it
on or off.

Think AA cells, on a good day. Square 9 volts on a bad day.

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:59:49 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I have a terrible suspicion that the budget for this
thing is likely to be around £50. If not - good. Many
more options. Can we confirm?

For £50 you can't do squat with wireless.

The system our pastor uses is about £500 for the
receiver and transmitter, £370 for the basic mic, and
about another £60 for the accessory headband. Turn the
£ into dollars and you're looking at a good estimate of
US pricing. BTW compared to cheaper stuff, it is worth
every penny. I've been down both roads several times.

Yeah, I know. That still may be the budget. And there
won't be anything even approaching a sound board or a
sound operator. This ain't big-business religion.

Roger that.

IME just a wireless mic doesn't require much support. Get the levels right
and its all the same for a long time.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article
, Arny
Krueger wrote:
Our lash-up is about 1 grand. 2 grand would get you near
the high end stuff that is used in high end venues like
legitimate theatres in large cities, big rock acts on
the road, etc. Probably what is used in TV production at
the BCC level, etc.

Only ones I use pro wise have been Micron and Sennheiser.


The low end of the Micron line seems to price out at about 1.5 x Sennheiser
Evolution G2 which is already well above average, price-wise.

They're rather more than 2k GBP a channel with mic.

Yes, like the top end of the Shure line.

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
news

What's he using now? Where's the mic? A cheap system on
a boom will sound much better than an expensive one on
the lapel.

Unless you've got a boom operator (way over the top for a church this size)
the boom tethers the pastor, and that's highly counter-productive.

Headset mics give the best combination of convenience and sound quality, but
they would be on the complex side for a low tech operation like the one
described in the OP, and as further elaborated on by Dave.

I hate lavs, but they are a necessary evil in many cases.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:16:00 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

Give Canford Audio a ring,

http://www.canford.co.uk/

They have some very knowledgeable people there in their tech support
dept for that sort of thing....
--

I have a terrible suspicion that the budget for this thing is likely
to be around £50. If not - good. Many more options. Can we
confirm?

I've not confirmed this but my figure was more like a max of 10 times
that. But not the 2 grand or so most decent pro ones start at.


Should be OK then. A local ILR outfit we know of bought one of the
Trantrec UHF jobbies around a year ago less than 200 squids and it
performs very well indeed.

They do a sort of road show thing and several young ladies are capable
of operating it and changing the batteries as and when necessary;!...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
Only ones I use pro wise have been Micron and Sennheiser.


The low end of the Micron line seems to price out at about 1.5 x
Sennheiser Evolution G2 which is already well above average, price-wise.

Yes. But you pay for quality and I've used Micron for over 40 years. They
were light years ahead of the competition world wide when they arrived -
and although plenty others are good now you tend to stick with what you
know and trust.

I worked for the BBC TV at the time, and before the Micron you crossed
your fingers with any make of radio mic. The Microns just worked. They
were also the first to offer diversity reception - at least of the common
pro types in the UK. And a radio hand mic designed for good speech quality
- ie interviews etc - rather than as a pop vocal mic.

They're rather more than 2k GBP a channel with mic.

Yes, like the top end of the Shure line.

For pro use I'd make up my own mind. For this I need help from those with
experience of such things.

--
*The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
news


What's he using now? Where's the mic? A cheap system on
a boom will sound much better than an expensive one on
the lapel.

Unless you've got a boom operator (way over the top for a church this
size) the boom tethers the pastor, and that's highly counter-productive.

Headset mics give the best combination of convenience and sound quality,
but they would be on the complex side for a low tech operation like the
one described in the OP, and as further elaborated on by Dave.

I'd guess Laurence means a headset mic.

I hate lavs, but they are a necessary evil in many cases.

There's absolutely *no way* you can hate them more than me. They have
ruined TV drama speech quality throughout the world - started in the US
and has moved here.
At one time you could close your eyes and get a decent (mono) soundstage
on TV - but with personal mics it's all just bland.

--
*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
Strange for me to ask such a question but I've simply got no direct
experience of this end of the market.

My brother is an elder of the kirk and they need a replacement body
pack radio mic. Just for the minister. These days they wander round the
kirk rather than remaining in the pulpit. ;-) One which you popped into
a charger after use would be ideal - it's only used perhaps three times
a week for about 2 hours each time, and finding someone with reasonable
skills to change batteries on a regular basis isn't that easy. A
separate charger would be better than one in the receiver. It also
needs to have a convenient way of the minister being able to mute it
for hymns - for obvious reasons. Although I'm willing to modify it for
that if it isn't possible. The current one he switches off which isn't
ideal. Although might be ok when moving to the correct frequency. The
current one is VHF.


Give Canford Audio a ring,

http://www.canford.co.uk/

They have some very knowledgeable people there in their tech support
dept for that sort of thing....

I was hoping someone here I knew had direct experience of the use intended.
It's not opinion like the difference between LP and CD - I just need solid
reliable build and reasonable performance.



They've had recommended clerical experts in to give specs and quotes - and
after the lighting and heating fiascos (which I helped sort out) they've
sort of lost their appeal. Sadly all these types want their (large) slice
of the cake and value for money is what I'm trying to help provide. The
congregation can and will raise what's needed - but some 'pros' in this
field are as happy to rip off a church as any other.


Indeed been there seen that. Why is it churches and charities have a lot
of money that they waste with this sort of silliness?, or is it that the
right sort of people never seem to be around in the organisations either
as staff or * volunteer's to help them with those sorts of decisions?.

One we know of has some property and rents out some of the houses they
have, they get charged absolutely silly amounts for someone to "manage"
them. Seems that there're taken for a right royal ride and that sort of
thing isn't rocket science either.

As to Radio Mics thats why I said try Canford as when we wanted one for
said station its sometime since I was involved in those and was a bit
out of touch with the market. Spoke to a very well informed bloke there
who certainly know his stuff and like you say they couldn't afford the
sort of money required for full pro equipment but they did recommended
something at a much lesser cost that surprised me by how well it
performed!...


* can be dangerous 'tho we know of a community radio station who's "tech
director" advocated spending around £15,000 for a hard drive playout
system when the one here in Cambridge uses mAirLst which gives very good
results and for non profit making entities its Free of charge the
software that is, you have to pay for the PC's and decent soundcards but
even so!!...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
I've not confirmed this but my figure was more like a max of 10 times
that. But not the 2 grand or so most decent pro ones start at.


Should be OK then. A local ILR outfit we know of bought one of the
Trantrec UHF jobbies around a year ago less than 200 squids and it
performs very well indeed.

Trantec (if that's who you mean) are on my list as I've used their IEM for
some years. Not the strongest made devices but good value. If only they
offered a 'ruggedised' version with better connectors etc they'd be my
first choice.

They do a sort of road show thing and several young ladies are capable
of operating it and changing the batteries as and when necessary;!...

As I said a distinct lack of young people to help out in this app.

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.