Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just
outside of this town and they *all* have turntables and
play records,

Probably due to your evangelization...


When do I 'evangelize'?

The picture of a madman ranting about the *evils of vinyl* is far more
commonplace here - and we both know who I'm talking about, don't we? ;-)

(Same for SET valve amps, asitappens! ;-)




so I think you could safely say that at
least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a very
fashionable item - no?

My friends would blanch at the thought of our shared preferences being
merely fashionable.


Where did the 'merely' come from?

You and Mr Looser really do have to look at this business of modifying
people's statements to suit the purposes of your arguments....

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


Still trying to lay down the law, David?

Stop talking ******** Keith. This is a discussion group, I am no more
"trying to lay down the law" than you, or anyone else who posts an opinion
here.


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your posts (even today)
is very often one of 'laying down the law' (or trying to) rather than
reasoned debate. For instance, there is a world of difference between the
phrases 'I disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes you, then it is not
my job to put you in the picture.



What do you mean by 'the general sense' - I am not aware of any 'fashion'
that applies to anyone outside the select group who are interested in the
'fashion' in question.

If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?


If
the word "fashionable" is used without qualification it implies
considerably
more than the item in question being popular within a narrow interest
group.



In almost every human activity there will be stuff which is 'fashionable
with the the 'xyz' set' - fashions are rarely *universal*.



Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this
town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could
safely say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a
very fashionable item - no?

No.

What is the population of your town? 100,000?


No, less than 30,000


so 5 people represents
.005%. Of course there will be many more people in your town who own, and
use, turntables. But there will be significantly more than that again who
own and use CD players and mp3 players.


How do you know this - have you asked them?


It seems to me to be the height of
folly to try to claim fashionability for a minority interest product
simply
because it is popular amongst the people who constitute that minority. At
that rate *everything* is "fashionable" and the word becomes meaningless.


I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word 'fashion' -
apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable withe someone,
somewhere....??



(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)

Or maybe yours is that you do :-)



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)



BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".


Another 'Looser imposed condition' - when he collect that liability?

It's far from a "Looser imposed condition". If you make a statement and
are unable, or unwilling, to support it with evidence then that statement
is no more than your unsupported opinion. That's a fact of life, not an
imposition from me!

Who cares if turntables are considered 'fashionable' here or not?

Your mate Iain clearly does, as he was the one who suggested that
turntables might become "fashionable"


I think you've read too much in what he said - I don't think he was implying
turntables would become fashionable with ukra (UK is two words) subscribers.



FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!

Then you need to get out more. It's easy, if you only ever mix with
like-minded enthusiasts, to conclude that most people think like you. And
*nobody* has expressed "opposition" to the use of turntables or records.
All that I and others have expressed is the opinion that CDs offer a
better alternative.


I don't need to travel - I get all the 'opposition' I need to vinyl here!
:-)



And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly agitated


No, you just made that up....


at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)



QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

You are losing it Keith ;-)


Don't you mean 'loosing it'...??

:-)

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


Still trying to lay down the law, David?

Stop talking ******** Keith. This is a discussion group, I am no more
"trying to lay down the law" than you, or anyone else who posts an
opinion
here.


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your posts (even today)
is very often one of 'laying down the law' (or trying to) rather than
reasoned debate.

That maybe your perception, it's not mine.

For instance, there is a world of difference between the phrases 'I
disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

And where did I say "you are wrong"?

If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes you, then it is
not my job to put you in the picture.

The distinction does not escape me, where I disagree is that I see your
posts exhibiting exactly those qualities that you object to in mine. You put
your views forward strongly, so do I. You cannot have one rule for you, and
another for everyone else.



What do you mean by 'the general sense' - I am not aware of any
'fashion'
that applies to anyone outside the select group who are interested in
the
'fashion' in question.

If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?

Television before the war?


If
the word "fashionable" is used without qualification it implies
considerably
more than the item in question being popular within a narrow interest
group.



In almost every human activity there will be stuff which is 'fashionable
with the the 'xyz' set' - fashions are rarely *universal*.

True enough, but if the word is used without qualification then one would
expect it to apply to at least a large proprtion of the population.


Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this
town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could
safely say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a
very fashionable item - no?

No.

What is the population of your town? 100,000?


No, less than 30,000


so 5 people represents
.005%.

OK, .015% Still pretty insignificant.

Of course there will be many more people in your town who own, and
use, turntables. But there will be significantly more than that again who
own and use CD players and mp3 players.


How do you know this - have you asked them?

OK, you got me there! I cannot *prove* that to be the case. Put it like
this, I see people out and about with mp3 players all the time. Walk around
town or ride on a bus or train and there they are. CDs are widely available
in supermarkets or general stores (whilst LPs aren't) and there are many
times more CD than LP titles available from on-line retailers such as
Amazon. CD drives are standard in commonplace domestic items such as
computers, "mini-HiFis", boom boxes etc.


It seems to me to be the height of
folly to try to claim fashionability for a minority interest product
simply
because it is popular amongst the people who constitute that minority. At
that rate *everything* is "fashionable" and the word becomes meaningless.


I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word
'fashion' - apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable
withe someone, somewhere....??

I like Broccoli :-)
But if "everything" is 2fashionable" the word ceases to
mean anything.



(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you
probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)

Or maybe yours is that you do :-)



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)

No, you are the one with the 'CD problems' ;-)


I think you've read too much in what he said - I don't think he was
implying turntables would become fashionable with ukra (UK is two words)
subscribers.

There is a "uk" hierarchy, that's one hierachy.
I understood that he was implying that turntables would become fashionable
with the general music-buying public.



FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience
any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!


The only 'opposition' you get here is to your oft-stated views on CD.


Then you need to get out more. It's easy, if you only ever mix with
like-minded enthusiasts, to conclude that most people think like you. And
*nobody* has expressed "opposition" to the use of turntables or records.
All that I and others have expressed is the opinion that CDs offer a
better alternative.


I don't need to travel - I get all the 'opposition' I need to vinyl here!
:-)


And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than
half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly agitated


No, you just made that up....

Did I? Your response to suggestions that vinyl is inferior to CD often seems
pretty agitated to me. Your reference above to "half a dozen noisy
individuals
here - one or two of whom can become quite hysterical with it!" looks pretty
"agitated" to me!

at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)

Very much a minority view.


QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

You are losing it Keith ;-)


Don't you mean 'loosing it'...??

ROFLOL!

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of commonly known and
understand physical laws.

For instance, there is a world of difference between the
phrases 'I disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

There's a world of difference between being wrong about something that is
well known, and having differing opinions about something that is not well
known.

If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes
you, then it is not my job to put you in the picture.

There you go Keith - it is you who says they control who is "in the picture"
and who is not.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

On 20/02/2011 12:30, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of commonly known and
understand physical laws.


Go on, I'll bite :-)

Which physical laws of yours would these be?

Rob

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


For instance, there is a world of difference between the phrases 'I
disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

And where did I say "you are wrong"?


I am making a point, not referring to any particular incidence - the next
time it happens I will point it out.



If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?

Television before the war?


Then I can't comment - I wasn'r around then! I am led to understand that TV
'pre war' was in its infancy and not widespread enough to be a fashion - no?


In almost every human activity there will be stuff which is 'fashionable
with the the 'xyz' set' - fashions are rarely *universal*.

True enough, but if the word is used without qualification then one would
expect it to apply to at least a large proprtion of the population.


Qualification isn't usually necessary - to say something is 'fashionable'
implies that is fashionable to a given group, however large or small.
Coloured contact lenses are fashionable but thankfully only to a minority of
people.

What's far more important is 'are SET valve amps fashionable'...??



OK, you got me there! I cannot *prove* that to be the case. Put it like
this, I see people out and about with mp3 players all the time.


This is where we differ, I haven't seen very many at all: mobile phones
stuck to the side of their heads - yes!


Walk around
town or ride on a bus or train and there they are. CDs are widely
available
in supermarkets or general stores (whilst LPs aren't) and there are many
times more CD than LP titles available from on-line retailers such as
Amazon. CD drives are standard in commonplace domestic items such as
computers, "mini-HiFis", boom boxes etc.


'Commonplace' doesn't equate with *quality* - usually quite the reverse!


I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word
'fashion' - apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable
withe someone, somewhere....??

I like Broccoli :-)


I just won a million pounds! ;-)



But if "everything" is 2fashionable" the word ceases to
mean anything.



Quite. It doesn't really mean anything other than summat is popular with (or
aspired to) a given bunch of people.



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)

No, you are the one with the 'CD problems' ;-)


Absolutely no! I don't play them (except rarely) and have more than enough
vinyl to be getting on with - thus they are no problem to me!



I understood that he was implying that turntables would become fashionable
with the general music-buying public.


Too far away from the original now to know what you are referring to - is
that Iain? If so, I don't think he would have said that - I don't believe
vinyl will ever be played by more than a dedicated minority of enthusiasts.



FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience
any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!


The only 'opposition' you get here is to your oft-stated views on CD.


That they are crap? (I've only said that once before - yesterday, I think!
:-)


And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than
half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly
agitated


No, you just made that up....

Did I? Your response to suggestions that vinyl is inferior to CD often
seems
pretty agitated to me. Your reference above to "half a dozen noisy
individuals
here - one or two of whom can become quite hysterical with it!" looks
pretty
"agitated" to me!


Er, about as 'agitated' as a 'half cut' Dean Martin, actually!

#Gimme the moonlight...#

;-)



at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)

Very much a minority view.


Plummetting sales say different!

(They are obviously not good enough to prevent people ditching them in
favour of downloads for the same sort of money! :-)

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of commonly known and
understand physical laws.


??


For instance, there is a world of difference between the
phrases 'I disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

There's a world of difference between being wrong about something that is
well known, and having differing opinions about something that is not well
known.


What has that to do with anything?



If the subtle yet significant importance of that escapes
you, then it is not my job to put you in the picture.

There you go Keith - it is you who says they control who is "in the
picture" and who is not.


I'm afraid I haven't understood a word of that.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


For instance, there is a world of difference between the phrases 'I
disagree' and 'you are wrong'.

And where did I say "you are wrong"?


I am making a point, not referring to any particular incidence - the next
time it happens I will point it out.


Ah, I see, I didn't say it, but you will criticise me for saying it anyway.


If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you
agree?


I don't know what you mean by 'pre-war TV'...?

Television before the war?


Then I can't comment - I wasn'r around then! I am led to understand that
TV 'pre war' was in its infancy and not widespread enough to be a
fashion - no?

But there were people fascinated by TV at the time, and indeed there are
people today fascinated by this formative period in the history of TV. My
point is that by the logic that has been used to claim "fashionabilty" for
vinyl pre-war TV should also be "fashionable".


What's far more important is 'are SET valve amps fashionable'...??

Nope.



OK, you got me there! I cannot *prove* that to be the case. Put it like
this, I see people out and about with mp3 players all the time.


This is where we differ, I haven't seen very many at all: mobile phones
stuck to the side of their heads - yes!


You really don't get out much do you Keith! Try opening your eyes next time
you are on a bus or train (or are you one of those who never goes anywhere
by public transport?)


'Commonplace' doesn't equate with *quality* - usually quite the reverse!

That comment shows that you are missing the point by miles! You were talking
about the *popularity* of vinyl and now, when I state that vinyl is far less
popular than CD or mp3 you start wittering on about quality. Just try
conceding a point when you lose, rather than try and pretend that we were
talking about something different. :-(

BTW your statement "Commonplace' doesn't equate with *quality* - usually
quite the reverse" doesn't hold true these days. Automated mass production
not only produces items at low cost (thus allowing them to be "commonplace")
but also produces them at a consistent high quality.

I think you are still applying 'universal' qualities to the word
'fashion' - apart from Broccoli, I suspect everything is 'fashionable
withe someone, somewhere....??

I like Broccoli :-)


I just won a million pounds! ;-)



But if "everything" is 2fashionable" the word ceases to
mean anything.



Quite. It doesn't really mean anything other than summat is popular with
(or aspired to) a given bunch of people.



I'm not the one with 'vinyl problems' here, am I? ;-)

No, you are the one with the 'CD problems' ;-)


Absolutely no! I don't play them (except rarely) and have more than enough
vinyl to be getting on with - thus they are no problem to me!

Ah, yet again you twist the meaning to suit yourself. If that's the meaning
of "problem" you meant with your statement then I'm not aware that anyone
here has "vinyl problems".



The only 'opposition' you get here is to your oft-stated views on CD.


That they are crap? (I've only said that once before - yesterday, I think!
:-)

Whether you've used that exact expression before or not, you've expressed
that view frequently, so please don't try playing games with words. I cannot
decide whether you do this sort of thing deliberately to avoid having to
concede a point, or whether you genuinely cannot follow arguments further
back than one post in a thread.


But it isn't - it's CDs which are crap! ;-)

Very much a minority view.


Plummetting sales say different!

Again you are totally missing the point (you do it so well Keith, and so
often!) Sales are not plumetting because people think CDs are "crap", they
are plumeting because music is increasingly being downloaded (often at no
cost) and listened to from mp3 players etc.

(They are obviously not good enough to prevent people ditching them in
favour of downloads for the same sort of money! :-)

Nobody is ditching CDs in favour of downloads because they think downloads
have better fidelity, they are doing it because downloads are quick, because
they can buy the tracks they want rather than having to buy a whole album.
And, since they are going to play the music from their mp3 player anyway,
there's not really much point in bothering with a physical object.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article , David Looser
wrote:


Nobody is ditching CDs in favour of downloads because they think
downloads have better fidelity,

Well, it may be that *some* people are switching to downloads to get
96k/24bit (or similar) LPCM because they regard that as "better fidelity"
than CD. How often they would be right to think this is another matter...
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Rob" wrote in message
eb.com
On 20/02/2011 12:30, Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith wrote in message


Forgive me if I disagree with you, but the tone of your
posts (even today) is very often one of 'laying down the
law' (or trying to) rather than reasoned debate.

Root cause, someone who is willfully ignorant of
commonly known and understand physical laws.


Go on, I'll bite :-)

Which physical laws of yours would these be?

I have no physical laws, but the universe and Science have done well with
theirs.