And another one!
 

On 07/03/2011 17:19, Keith G wrote:

"Rob" wrote in message
b.com...
On 07/03/2011 16:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Keith wrote:
Turntables, carts and arms are easier to fiddle with and make a
difference than CD players or radio receivers, in my book. Feel
free to
disagree.

Of course. Fiddling with all of those will likely make them sound
worse
than when correctly set up.


Typical meaningless (and erroneous) ****y response noted.

Thanks for showing yet again you have no concept of decent sound
reproduction.


Everybody has a concept of decent sound reproduction - even you. That
is the point.


His problem he has no idea (and probably little or no real experience) -
when does a turntable *ever* come to you properly set up? It's almost a
certainty that no eBay or secondhand stuff will be ready to play and I
have even had to go to the local hifi shop more than once to sort out
turntable problems on brand new kit!


Quite! With the notable exception of Japanese turntables most that have
come my way have needed something fairly significant doing.

But I was also making a general point about this thing called 'decent
sound'. Whatever the 'faithful to original' arguments that surround
medium and method we all have a different view about what is decent.
It's just that expressing a view in anything other than 'scientific'
language causes such outrage. I make this point every 6 months or so ;-)

Rob

And another one!
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

And then there are those of us who make recordings of live music in
actual music venues...


You need to realise there are
*no* noobies here to impress with such platitudinous claptrap .......

And if there are, we can soon dispel any illusions
by a link to "Domine" :-))

Iain

And another one!
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message ...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
As I said, doing the layout manually is part of the
fun. PC board design programmes not. And I have my own
equipment for producing them. Not a 'room' though.
Sounds like you've never actually made such a thing.
;-)


Sounds like you are calling Iain a *liar* with almost
every response you make to his posts without actually
using the word...??

You feel that too? Not surprising given how much he
contradicts himself.

Yes I feel it sounds like you are calling Iain a *liar*
with almost every response you make to his posts without
actually using the word.

Lying implies that the liar knows better than what he says.


Hmm Interesting definition Arny. So how should we
regard a church volunteer recordist, who claims he is a
professional, while he and everyone else knows, and the
dire standard of his work clearly illustrates, that he is not?

Iain

And another one!
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Turntables, carts and arms are easier to fiddle with and
make a difference than CD players or radio receivers, in
my book. Feel free to disagree.

Beleive it or not, there is more to audio than amplifiers and music
players.

I'm thinking of speakers and rooms, of course.

And then there are those of us who make recordings of live music in actual
music venues...

Ah yes. "Domine" !!

Strong contender for the Guiness Book of Records.
Category: Worst recording of all time:-)

Don't think we can count that, Arny, it probably
contravenes the Geneva Convention:-(


Iain

And another one!
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Oh - building valve equipment is actually more difficult than transistor
stuff.

But building with valves is a lot more fun:-)

Your opinion, not mine.

There's all that metal-bashing needed with valves that, frankly, I can do
without.

It does take some effort it's true. But it is part of
the project. There are many options.

One can buy a ready punched chassis, for say a
25 amp (2x EL34) plus driver/phase inverter,
and input stage. One can also by good blank
chassis from companies such as Hammond, or have
one made locally. I use a small local firm who can
make me a very professional loking chasssis in
stainless steel or copper, pre punched for about
E50.They can work from even a drawing made in
Word, but prefer an AutoCad file.

I am sure there are dozens of good firms in the UK
who can do this kind of work, for probably much
less than I pay.



I've done plenty
of both over the years. And as someone pointed out, valves
are far more forgiving.

And so much more limiting. You can build a simple analogue amplifier with
valves, but not much more.

Tha's exactly what people want to do.
Many start with a kit.

Then later, they start on their own projects and
build a power amp. Then they build a preamp,
and often a separate RIAA stage. Then they
find that, if you don't need the tone controls,
the preamp is unnecessary with modern
high-level sources, so they strip out the power
amp and build a new one with an input selector
and stepped input attenuators.

My most recent audio project has been a device to pick-off 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM
audio from the HDMI output of a Bluray player and send it as 4 AES/EBU
streams to a cinema audio processor. Try doing *that* with valves!

That's a good project. Do you have a picture?

It wouldn't make any sense to even think
about doing that and it is probably not the
sort of thing that people want to do with
valves anyway.

I have a project on the back burner to build a
pair of log meter amplifiers with valves to drive a
pair of Decca type Ernest Turner PPMs

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...tTurnerPPM.jpg



PCBs take away one of the most interesting stages -
planning ther physical layout.

Err... don't PCBs need their physical layout planned?

Yes. You buy them ready with most kits. So the
layout is alreasdy planned for you. As I say
it takes away a lot of *your* fun.

Vero board looks very
Heath Robinson.

Very useful for prototyping though.

In tobacco tins:-)

In valve amps, point-to-point can give unexpected results.

Layout can be critical to getting optimum results with either.

Tag boards can still be bought, and good old mil spec
turret boards are still readily available.


At a price

If the principal concern is price, you shouldn't even
think about building valve equipment. But if you
are looking to do something that will give you
weeks of building enjoyment and years of listening
pleasure then there is nothing better

(IMHO:-)

Cheers
Iain

And another one!
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Turntables, carts and arms are easier to fiddle with and make a
difference than CD players or radio receivers, in my book. Feel free
to
disagree.

Of course. Fiddling with all of those will likely make them sound worse
than when correctly set up.


Typical meaningless (and erroneous) ****y response noted.

Thanks for showing yet again you have no concept of decent sound
reproduction.

Probably not your intention, Dave but you are
sounding more and more like Arny:-)

Is there any truth in the rumour that, now you
are retired with even more time on your hands,
Arnold is giving you recording lessons via Skype?

:-))

Iain

And another one!
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

(It helps to explain that the trouble with 'firewood horns' is that, no
matter how much you like making them, you soon run out of space for
them!
:-)

Oh indeed. The laws of physics are quite specific as to LF response in a
horn.

But there is no denying that with certain types
of music, ( i.e. small string ensembles) a SET
amp and horns give the most wonderful lifelike
musical experience.

I am reminded of the first time I heard the
Resnekov SET with a pair of Lowthers
(Prokofiev String Quartet) as a guest at the home
of the gentleman who had played the cello on
that performance. It was so realistic, I felt I could
shut my eyes, reach out and touch the cello.

Iain

And another one!
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
As I said, doing the layout manually is part of the fun. PC board
design programmes not. And I have my own equipment for producing them.
Not a 'room' though. Sounds like you've never actually made such a
thing. ;-)


Sounds like you are calling Iain a *liar* with almost every response you
make to his posts without actually using the word...??

You feel that too? Not surprising given how much he contradicts himself.


Yes I feel it sounds like you are calling Iain a *liar* with almost every
response you make to his posts without actually using the word.


On several occasions I have taken the trouble to
provide links to audio samples, pics, etc to
substantiate and clarify my posts, Dave
has stated that he is unwilling to open them for
the risk of viruses, (!!) and also that he cannot
be bothered to look at them. I translate this as
"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!"

So be it:-)

Iain

And another one!
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Oh - building valve equipment is actually more difficult than
transistor stuff.

But building with valves is a lot more fun:-) I've done plenty of both
over the years.

I have also done both.[1] But have much preferred designing and building
'transistor stuff'.

I can understand that - each to his own:-)



Maybe this is because I prefer to develop my own
designs in my own ways.

You can do that with valves too, and even modify
the performance in a subtle way by substituting
a Mullard for say a Westinghouse valve. They do
sound different.

Not feel pushed into doing something based on an
old design and aimed at what I can get o/p transformers for.

You can get OPTs for anything and everything valve related.
Sowter, Hammond, Welter and many others have a huge
selection, and will also custom design/build at no extra cost.

Yes, you can learn to wind your own transformers. I have used winding
machines. But I can't say that personally interested me for transformers.
More interesting to use one for winding 10 micron or 5 micron wires to
make
THz polarisers. :-)

And as someone pointed out, valves are far more forgiving. You can set
the bias slowly, and watch the anodes glow cherry red:-)

PCBs take away one of the most interesting stages - planning ther
physical layout. Vero board looks very Heath Robinson.

Can't say I care about that one way or another. When I've built equipment
it is to use, not to look at. For commercial items I'm happy to leave
styling, etc, to someone else. :-)

I take a pride in the finished result. On many occasions people have
asked me to "build one for them"

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...em/C50_007.jpg

In the above case, twelve times!


Iain

And another one!
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...

One group I worked in during my time with BT had it's own darkroom for PCB
manufacture. I could design a circuit in the morning, design and make the
PCB, populate it and have it working on the bench the same day. Happy
days!


That sounds very much like the proto lab to which I
have access. They also have a CNC machine which
drills the holes in the board (the most boring part of
doing it by hand)

Iain