Audio, hi-fi and car audio - A good 'record' shop?

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A good 'record' shop?

In article , Eiron
wrote:
On 27/06/2011 20:17, FedupLurker wrote:

What the rest of us know but not Jim, is that there is no point to
SACD for the domestic listener, nor with DVD-Audio neither. The real
point (and the claims) for "high rez" formats was to steer the
consumer away from easily ripped/pirated 16 binary digit CD format as
domestic computers began to steal gadget freaks from the audio
hardware market. With SACD only the CD layer can be read on a computer
drive. There are no drives available for PC nor over-priced Macs (and
certainly nothing under Linux) that can read SACD's. And they cannot
be digitally ripped. Only dedicated "audio" hardware can read
SACD/DVD-A, and the digital outputs of such hardware can only output
the CD layer or down sample to 16/44.

Are you suggesting that Jim doesn't have an SACD player? Or that he's
not using the analogue outputs?

FWIW I'm using an Arcam 137 to play SACDs. Until the last few weeks I've
had no real interest in SACD, so only have half-a-dozen 'hybrid' discs
which I bought because the SACD layer came with the CD layer and there
wasn't a plain CD version.

My current interest was sparked as a spinoff from having been trying 24/96k
files more seriously - both for test purposes and for listening - during
the last few weeks. This then made me wonder about the SACDs.

So I played some, and also made some 24/96k LPCM recordings of them from
the 137 using my Tascam HDP2 so I could try these as 24/96k via USB into
the DAC I'm using to compare (and to examine the frequency response, HF
hash, etc, on the SACD).

Since all but one (two if you could the 'Tommy' set as two discs) of the
few SACDs I have are classical music from Linn and Chandos I decided it
would be useful to get a few non-classical examples that had decent reviews
and seemed worth listening to for their content.

ahem You may notice here that I tend to do things out of my personal
curiosity and interest, not simply do what others tell me I should do. :-)

I don't believe in the theory of SACDs but they sound OK to me.

I'm also very doubtful. Partly for the reasons Lip****z exposed some
years ago. Partly because I also did some modelling of the DSD 'modulators'
and 'demodulators' Sony described in open literature some years ago,
and found various problems with things like idler patterns, etc. Every
time I did this and told Philips they said things like "Well, we've
changed that now" until they finally stopped saying much about the
details of the systems used. Can't say that filled me with confidence.

FWIW as yet I've formed no views at all wrt any differences in 'sound'
between SACD (stereo) and CD. And as yet I've not felt any urge to regard
SACD versions as a 'must have' over a CD. I suspect I am more likely to
favour 24/96k LPCM. So far as I can tell the rule for SACD is the same for
CD and LP and tape and... That the sound quality depends on how well the
individual recording was made, how well the copy was manufactured, etc.
This seems to vary a lot more than inherent aspects of the media. And in
the end, how good the music and performance.

Coming back on topic, the snag for me is that although I have some Jazz and
enjoy it, my knowledge of the genre is limited, and I have even less
knowledge of the relative quality and provenance of 'versions' of pieces by
various artists. Often in cases where they recorded the same work on more
than one occasion and recordings are out of copyright so some re-issues may
be dire and others excellent. Hence my interest in a *knowledgeable* dealer
who can help. Must admit I found it quite amusing that some promptly jumped
to the conclusion that I had never used buying over the web, etc. However
I'm dissapointed that so far no-one seems able to help with my *actual*
request. The good news is that the person I tend to buy classical from has
actually suggested a jazz specialist he recommends. So I'll give them a
try.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

A good 'record' shop?

On 27/06/2011 22:47, UnsteadyKen wrote:

FedupLurker wrote...

What the rest of us know but not Jim, is that there is no point to SACD for
the domestic listener, nor with DVD-Audio neither.

What!

Calm down Ken, you'll fall over.

A good 'record' shop?

"Eiron" wrote in message
...

There are a load of Miles Davis SACDs out there.
And every charity shop has Dark Side Of The Moon.

Blimey!, what sort of neighbourhood do you live in?

Or did you mean that every charity shop has Dark Side of the Moon on vinyl?

David.

A good 'record' shop?

On 28/06/2011 09:34, Jim Lesurf wrote:

Coming back on topic, the snag for me is that although I have some Jazz and
enjoy it, my knowledge of the genre is limited, and I have even less
knowledge of the relative quality and provenance of 'versions' of pieces by
various artists. Often in cases where they recorded the same work on more
than one occasion and recordings are out of copyright so some re-issues may
be dire and others excellent. Hence my interest in a *knowledgeable* dealer
who can help.

You are either being lazy of deliberately stupid. Search the internet
there are numerous websites specialising in jazz CD catalogues. From all
over the world and shipping all over the world. Not just selling, but
publishing reviews, recommendations and other general information If you
can't find a certain album/artist on on-line then it probably doesn't exist.

I don't believe you are going to get from a dealer the sort of level of
service you seem to expect, and seem to expect, as normal. I think for
what you are after then some on-line (debate/discuss) forum specializing
in jazz or some other general music discussion forum would be your best
suited. And do your own research on the subject via the internet. You
can't expect a dealer to be at your beck and call.

Must admit I found it quite amusing that some promptly jumped
to the conclusion that I had never used buying over the web, etc.

You appeared like a complete novice. Maybe that's the reason.

You requested ......

So one of the things I started looking for was a dealer who stocked
and could sell, as an example, the Nat King Cole SACD Where did everybody
go?"

Nothing rare or unusual about that CD just about very Tom, Dick, and HMV
sell that one. You were pointed to Amazon which is clearly offering what
you are requesting. Just about every jazz (or other) CD ever published
will appear on Amazon/Amazon Marketplace at one time or another. Just
keep an eye or request being alerted when it does appear.

However
I'm dissapointed that so far no-one seems able to help with my *actual*
request. The good news is that the person I tend to buy classical from has
actually suggested a jazz specialist he recommends. So I'll give them a
try.

Slainte,

Jim

You have been given suffice information to help with your request. Not
our fault you are not reading it.

A good 'record' shop?

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Eiron
wrote:
On 27/06/2011 20:17, FedupLurker wrote:

What the rest of us know but not Jim, is that there is no point to
SACD for the domestic listener, nor with DVD-Audio neither. The real
point (and the claims) for "high rez" formats was to steer the
consumer away from easily ripped/pirated 16 binary digit CD format as
domestic computers began to steal gadget freaks from the audio
hardware market. With SACD only the CD layer can be read on a computer
drive. There are no drives available for PC nor over-priced Macs (and
certainly nothing under Linux) that can read SACD's. And they cannot
be digitally ripped. Only dedicated "audio" hardware can read
SACD/DVD-A, and the digital outputs of such hardware can only output
the CD layer or down sample to 16/44.

Are you suggesting that Jim doesn't have an SACD player? Or that he's
not using the analogue outputs?

FWIW I'm using an Arcam 137 to play SACDs. Until the last few weeks I've
had no real interest in SACD, so only have half-a-dozen 'hybrid' discs
which I bought because the SACD layer came with the CD layer and there
wasn't a plain CD version.

My current interest was sparked as a spinoff from having been trying
24/96k
files more seriously - both for test purposes and for listening - during
the last few weeks. This then made me wonder about the SACDs.

So I played some, and also made some 24/96k LPCM recordings of them from
the 137 using my Tascam HDP2 so I could try these as 24/96k via USB into
the DAC I'm using to compare (and to examine the frequency response, HF
hash, etc, on the SACD).

Since all but one (two if you could the 'Tommy' set as two discs) of the
few SACDs I have are classical music from Linn and Chandos I decided it
would be useful to get a few non-classical examples that had decent
reviews
and seemed worth listening to for their content.

ahem You may notice here that I tend to do things out of my personal
curiosity and interest, not simply do what others tell me I should do. :-)

I don't believe in the theory of SACDs but they sound OK to me.

I'm also very doubtful. Partly for the reasons Lip****z exposed some
years ago. Partly because I also did some modelling of the DSD
'modulators'
and 'demodulators' Sony described in open literature some years ago,
and found various problems with things like idler patterns, etc. Every
time I did this and told Philips they said things like "Well, we've
changed that now" until they finally stopped saying much about the
details of the systems used. Can't say that filled me with confidence.

FWIW as yet I've formed no views at all wrt any differences in 'sound'
between SACD (stereo) and CD. And as yet I've not felt any urge to regard
SACD versions as a 'must have' over a CD. I suspect I am more likely to
favour 24/96k LPCM. So far as I can tell the rule for SACD is the same for
CD and LP and tape and... That the sound quality depends on how well the
individual recording was made, how well the copy was manufactured, etc.
This seems to vary a lot more than inherent aspects of the media. And in
the end, how good the music and performance.

Coming back on topic, the snag for me is that although I have some Jazz
and
enjoy it, my knowledge of the genre is limited, and I have even less
knowledge of the relative quality and provenance of 'versions' of pieces
by
various artists. Often in cases where they recorded the same work on more
than one occasion and recordings are out of copyright so some re-issues
may
be dire and others excellent. Hence my interest in a *knowledgeable*
dealer
who can help. Must admit I found it quite amusing that some promptly
jumped
to the conclusion that I had never used buying over the web, etc. However
I'm dissapointed that so far no-one seems able to help with my *actual*
request. The good news is that the person I tend to buy classical from has
actually suggested a jazz specialist he recommends. So I'll give them a
try.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

You might have a look here Jim. Still an online purchase.

http://www.telarc.com/SACD/

Dave

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

A good 'record' shop?

In article , The Last Of The
Lurkers wrote:

You have been given suffice information to help with your request.

There was certainly more than 'suffice' sic telling me things I did
*not* "request" and saying things that weren't a surprise to me. :-)

Interesting, and perhaps sad, that some may not understand the
distinctions.

Not our fault you are not reading it.

Nor mine that you haven't understood what I've explained. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

A good 'record' shop?

In article , Eiron
wrote:
On 28/06/2011 09:34, Jim Lesurf wrote:

Coming back on topic, the snag for me is that although I have some
Jazz and enjoy it, my knowledge of the genre is limited, and I have
even less knowledge of the relative quality and provenance of
'versions' of pieces by various artists. Often in cases where they
recorded the same work on more than one occasion and recordings are
out of copyright so some re-issues may be dire and others excellent.
Hence my interest in a *knowledgeable* dealer who can help. Must admit
I found it quite amusing that some promptly jumped to the conclusion
that I had never used buying over the web, etc. However I'm
dissapointed that so far no-one seems able to help with my *actual*
request. The good news is that the person I tend to buy classical from
has actually suggested a jazz specialist he recommends. So I'll give
them a try.

There are a load of Miles Davis SACDs out there.

Miles Davis is an interesting example for various reasons.

As I think I've already pointed out. Some pieces and recordings
often appear in many 'versions' on the web. Sometimes without details
like catalogue numbers or other differences. Sometimes only with
each 'version' available from different suppliers. It all makes
comparison and informed choice harder. This can get worse when we move
back into the timeframe where recordings are out of copyright,
so some 'versions' may be based on transcriptions of various sorts.

And of course jazz isn't simply a few super-stars like Davis
who is known even to those who know little about Jazz.

And every charity shop has Dark Side Of The Moon.

Funny enough I was in two charity shops this morning. Neither had DSOTM.
One had no music at all. The other just had a few LPs. So "every" might be
a slight exaggeration on your part. I doubt either shop has had many
SACDs :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

A good 'record' shop?

"sender" wrote in message
o.uk...

snip

https://www.dvdupgrades.ch/product/S...ard/24308.html

No, that cannot output 24/192 from either SACD nor DVD-A.
It isn't a PCI-E interface, nor any PC compatible card.
It is a modification board for existing SACD/DVD-A players.
In the site a google translation reveals they claim some success
with Denon and Pioneer multi-format playback machines.
It is not for home computers.

If you do a google search on:
Elgene Leistugen product modification
and use google translation on a bunch of Jap and German sites
in the results it seems to reveal that what it does is take the
multi channel analoque outputs, digitise and upsample the
analoque source signals and output that as a 24 bit via s/pdif.
But it is interesting with heaps of info online alas in foreign gibberish.

A good 'record' shop?

"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
m...

FedupLurker wrote...

What the rest of us know but not Jim, is that there is no point to SACD
for
the domestic listener, nor with DVD-Audio neither.

What!
Domesticated listeners are not interested in formats capable of carrying
up to 6 discrete channels of audio and of replaying those discs without
recourse to some sort of video display for navigation purposes?
Too busy watching the latest tedious 3D blockbuster in surround sound I
expect.

SACD has almost kicked the bucket, though there are some who attempt
to include it as a marketing ploy:

Offering a feature which according to you; nobody in their right mind
would want! That is some "marketing ploy"

It was an abject failure in marketing terms, and it didn't deliver the sonic
goodies.
Ken, if you are going to believe everything WHF? tells you then you need
to make the correlation with what they rave about and when the marketing/
advertising budget runs out. The raving also stops.