In article ,
Jerry wrote:

"David Looser" wrote in message
...

snip
: [because I have never seen such faults]
: I don't buy this idea that people are putting screws, bolts or
bits of metal
: rod into plugs in any significant numbers at all. Its *so* much
easier to
: nick a fuse from another appliance than to start looking for
bits of metal
: that will fit!
:

As others have pointed out in this thread, not just bits of bolts
or screws, simple (and readily available) kitchen foil, or bits
of copper wire.

By your rational, because you (personally, as likely as not) have
never known anyone be killed by electrocution there can't be any
risk of electrocution?

Well, you still appear to be here despite using all these weird and
wonderful things instead of fuses?

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jerry wrote:
: Wonder how you know all this? Just who ever wants to draw more
than 13
: amps from a socket anyway?

I'm saying that is it possible, not that someone wants to do so,
but then you seem more interested in the troll rather than
actually defending your beloved ring circuits...

It's a genuine question. What is it likely someone possesses which draws
more than 13 amps and comes with a 13 amp plug - necessitating replacing
the 13 amp fuse with a nail?
Perhaps the obvious one would be an extension lead with multiple socket
outlets. But then that can be overloaded with your favourite radials too.

:
: Oh yes - I remember. You used to work in a garage and probably
did just
: that since because it didn't have the correct wiring installed.

I seem to remember that you used to make TV programmes...

I'm retired. Why are you not working?

: Not everyone is as stupid as you Jerry.
:

You really are a stupid troll, understanding the risks is not the
same as practicing such risks, by your logic all child protection
officers are child abusers!

You just have a bee in your bonnet which simply isn't born out by
statistics after some 60 years of final ring circuits. It is an extremely
safe, versatile and economic design. Far better than the alternatives.
When used where it is designed for.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jerry wrote:
Nothing what so ever to do with an appliance needing more than
13amps, that is something you introduced in an attempt to troll,
it's everything to do with the appliance fuse blowing at 5pm on a
Sunday and there being no replacement - husband is being screamed
at by SWMBO because she wants to get the washing, hovering or
what ever done so hubby goes off in search of something - of
course those with common sense will rob Peter to pay Paul.

Most home in the UK will have many many devices fitted with 13 amp plugs,
and many of those also with 13 amp fuses.

It would take a true idiot to spend time cutting a nail or whatever to fit
rather than taking the fuse from one of those other devices.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jerry wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: Jerry wrote:
: : 'The same hardware' as used for radial circuits is not
suitable
: for final
: : ring circuits. As I keep saying, you need to learn some
: fundamentals
: : instead of making a fool of yourself.
: :
:
: Hmm, if correct then every spur off a ring circuit is
breaking
: the regs!
:
: You obviously haven't read them. And certainly don't understand
the basics.
:

So you keep saying Pet, so do tell us all the diffeance between a
BS1363 socket outlet and a, err, BS 1363 socket outlet?

I was referring to the difference between a radial circuit and a spur.
Which obviously escapes you.

You can have unlimited sockets on a spur from a ring - provided that spur
is protected by an FCU.

--
*If God had wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 12:40:58 +0000 Mike Tomlinson
wrote in Message id: :

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes


Just counted up how many double 13A sockets we've just put into the
refurbished *half* of this place: 38. That makes for one helluva fuse
board if each was a radial...

Seen American consumer units? Huge, ugly things, bit like the Americans
themselves :-)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ricalPanel.jpg

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

On 01/02/2012 13:06, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
The UK '13amp' plug top accepts fuses rated to suit the appliance. 13
amps is the maximum.

Strictly speaking the fuse is only to protect the flex. If the appliance
itself needs to be protected it will have its own fuse or thermal circuit
breaker, etc. Ie the same as if fed from an unfused plug as in most
countries.

You may have noticed that flex sizes have become more uniform recently -
all are now capable of blowing a 13 amps fuse in the plug regardless in
event of a short. As it seems using the correct fuse in a plug is beyond
most.

I suspect that's because the average person goes into a shop and buys
a mains plug for his (say) desk lamp. He gets it home to find it's
fitted with 13 amp fuse, either through not knowing any better or just
not having any 1 amp, 2 amp or 5amp fuses in the house, fits the plug
anyway.

It's still not really a problem because the lamps mains cable is almost
certainly heavy enough to blow a 13 amp fuse if there's a dead short.
It's pretty academic anyway as these days all domestic appliances in the
UK are supposed to be supplied with a fitted plugtop with the
(hopefully)correct fuse.

Comparing the US and the UK domestic mains electricity installations is
pointless - as is arguing about them. (IMHO)

Ron

In article , JW
writes

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

What makes you think we do?

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: Jerry wrote:
: : You are allowed to add spurs within the regs, but why is it
so
: much more
: : difficult to simply add a socket properly to the ring?
: :
:
: Because it adds an extra mechanical joint to the that is not
: necessary to the circuit, more than likely hidden
:
: Only in your twisted mind.
:

Unless you care to explain what you mean?... After is one is not
going to add a spur one has to make a joint in the ring, now that
can either be crammed into the back of the existing socket,
cold-welded [1] (which is an abortion that should not be allowed
by the regs, certainly not in a domestic environment were
inspections might be few and fare between, but is) and then
buried or made using a some form of accessible -although hidden-
junction box. Of course and as I said, but was snipped by the
groups apparent new troll, one can move one half of the existing
ring to the new socket outlet -assuming that it will reach.

[1] AKA a properly crimped joint

On Wed, 1 Feb 2012 15:42:30 +0000 Mike Tomlinson
wrote in Message id: :

In article , JW
writes

Yeah, but we're smart enough to not put them in our living room.

What makes you think we do?

Why else would you care what it looks like?

Ron wrote:

On 31/01/2012 20:47, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ron wrote:

David Looser wrote:

Ron wrote:

David Looser wrote:

Jerry wrote

Far more common to find the existing blown fuse wrapped in aluminium foil.

Well in some 2000-odd PAT tests I've never met that one, how often have you
come across it?

I used to see it a couple or three times a year back when I repaired
group gear, often on HT fuses in valve amplifiers, and back when 20mm
fuses started to become common in equipment, but not common in toolboxes.
It still amazes me that most musicians don't carry spare fuses around
with them.

Waste money on spare parts, and not have cash for their drugs? Hell,
some of them can't even afford to put enough gas in their beat up old
van to get to the gig.

Ah, you're talking about the good old days...


I used to repair guitar amps in the '60s & '70s. Some reeked of pot
o bad that they couldn't be brought into the shop until they were
sprayed down with ammonia.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.