"Jerry" wrote

Anyway, looking at the average sized UK consumer panel these days
(12 way + plus incoming main switch and such circuit switches
[1]) they are starting to look very heavy and 'industrial' anyway
(if one looks beyond the magnolia self coloured plastic cases),
gone are the days when one could get away with a slim-lined 4 or
6 way consumer unit...

Which is why I was suprised by the consumer unit in the Italian house that I
mentioned. Just 4 MCBs for a modern, 3 story house. But according to you
this was much safer than UK wiring because the plugs were unfused and they
don't use ring mains!

David.

m wrote:
David Looser wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

After all, the Right side is the right side...



You mean the French side

and German and...


The story goes that it was Napoleon who imposed driving on the right
(or more accurately in those pre-motor vehicle days passing oncoming
traffic on the right) onto a continent that up until then had mostly
still followed the old Roman rule of passing on the left.


The good news is that most of the major car manufacturers have
figured out to make cars of either format on the same production
line, etc.


Yes, its not a big deal. Although I have never driven across a land
border between left and right passing countries myself (its hard to
drive across the English Channel!) I have watched traffic crossing
the border between Thailand (drives on the left) and Burma (drives on
the right). It all seemed to work very smoothly.

David.



Except for the entrance to The Savoy Hotel in The Strand which is the
only place in UK (as far as I know) where traffic enters on the right of
the entrance road (so that the nice doorman can open the side door to
let the customer out)

And so that the passengers and driver don't have to stretch across the
cab to exchange payment.

It took an Act of Parliament to make it so.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:



Amsterdam in the '60s had a system where no money changed hands on the
trams. You bought books of tickets in a shop. Can't remember exactly how
evasion was policed.


They were honest - unlike the 70% of passengers on the Bendy-buses who
didn't pay.
Hence having to have squads of heavily protected "revenue inspectors" at
various points supported by Police (one of whom got slashed in the
throat around here (West ealing) when confronting a fare evader.

Another reason to get rid of those silly things (and replace them with
the nice new double-deckers rather than the expensive Boris buses)

Mike

In article ,
Jerry wrote:
: Because it adds an extra mechanical joint to the that is not
: necessary to the circuit, more than likely hidden
:
: Only in your twisted mind.
:

Unless you care to explain what you mean?... After is one is not
going to add a spur one has to make a joint in the ring,

Assuming the new socket is going somewhere between two others, cut the
cable leaving some spare where the new one goes, then run in new cable to
the next. Or new cable from the two existing sockets to the new. I don't
believe in saving pennies.

now that
can either be crammed into the back of the existing socket,
cold-welded [1] (which is an abortion that should not be allowed
by the regs, certainly not in a domestic environment were
inspections might be few and fare between, but is)

Crimped connections correctly made are by far and away the best method of
connection. Have you not noticed every single loom on a car, aircraft,
computer etc is made this way?

and then
buried or made using a some form of accessible -although hidden-
junction box. Of course and as I said, but was snipped by the
groups apparent new troll, one can move one half of the existing
ring to the new socket outlet -assuming that it will reach.

[1] AKA a properly crimped joint

There are JBs that conform to the regs when not accessible as regards the
regs.

Strange you're putting yourself forward as an expert in domestic wiring by
contradicting the regs. Could you give your qualifications for this?

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
S Viemeister wrote:
There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the house.
The only dedicated outlets are for refigerators, freezers, dryers and
electric stoves.


Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet
in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual
radial circuit. As would water heating.

And electric cookers?

Depends - quite a few ovens these days come with a 13 amp plug. Although
hobs normally need their own radial.

--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet
in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual
radial circuit. As would water heating.

Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30
amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was
wired into the wall plate without a socket.

Yes. And water heating.

Everything else was ring. On each floor you'd have a separate ring for
the sockets and lights.

Ring for lights? In the early days many houses were wired with just the
one ring. Next came a separate one for the kitchen.

--
*The more I learn about women, the more I love my car

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
There is no fixed number. It depends on the floor plan of the
house. The only dedicated outlets are for refrigerators, freezers,
dryers and electric stoves.

Think I prefer our system where all of these can be used on any outlet
in the house. Although fixed heating would normally have an individual
radial circuit. As would water heating.


A kitchen electric stove can take up to 50A 240V which is more than
your fragile rings can handle.

Sorry - we normally call them cookers, so I missed it. A complete electric
cooker would normally have its own radial here too. But most here would go
for a gas hob and electric oven - some of which can be run from a 13 amp
socket.

Who is going to move a dryer from room
to room? The refrigerator or freezer can be plugged in anywhere, but why
would you want them anywhere but the kitchen?

You never alter a kitchen?


Other circuits can have multiple outlets in a chain.
The maximum per circuit may depend on local code, but a typical breaker
panel is 20 slot and a few are empty for future use.

Local code - and you expect those in the UK to understand it? Why have
different numbers according to what side of a line you live?


Sigh. Water table, salt air, and hundreds of variables that tighten
the standard NEC. Some areas banned BX cable, because it rusts. In
some areas you have to use Schedule 80 gray PVC conduit instead of
steel. There are good reasons for most exemptions, and rules in the
NEC. Some limit the number of rooms per circuit, while others limit the
maximum number of outlets per circuit. There are differences all over
Europe, which is your side of the line.

Europe is a number of different countries, which explains any differences.
Although there is some unification. But just why you'd have local codes
concerning the number of sockets in the same country escapes me. Perhaps
you'd explain?

The first homes to get electricity usually had one outlet per room,
and one ceiling ;light with a pull chain. Two 10 A fuses, and a 15A
main on the 90-110 service. Some areas were DC, some were 25 Hz and
others were 60 Hz. Farms used lead acid batteries and a 'Wincharger' to
charge them. The house was wired for 32 volt, but used standard 110
hardware so that when the grid became available all they had to do was
replace the bulbs and appliances. Now, some areas require new service
or upgrades to be 200A 240V for the main breaker.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Which is why I was suprised by the consumer unit in the Italian house
that I mentioned. Just 4 MCBs for a modern, 3 story house. But
according to you this was much safer than UK wiring because the plugs
were unfused and they don't use ring mains!

Much the same as Spain - again new build.

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Ron
writes

If you want to see some spectacular electrical fails, check out the
facebook group called 'Dodgy technicians'

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dodgytechnicians/

Also take a look at:

http://www.electrical-contractor.net...p/forums/4/1/V
iolation_Photo_Forum.html

if the above line breaks (likely): http://tinyurl.com/84hv9y6

--
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(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article , Don Pearce
writes

Back in the olden days there was always a cooker spur rated at 30
amps. That came straight from the fuse board to the cooker, which was
wired into the wall plate without a socket.

Also the immersion, on its own 16A radial. Though sometimes you could
find it wired into a ring.

--
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(='.'=)
(")_(")