CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

"Andrew Virnuls" wrote in message
...
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
.. .
"The Artist" wrote in message
...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm

And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have
increased.
If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove
them.

An intriguing point of view - can you explain why? I'd quite like a
Porsche
Boxster, but don't want to pay £31,450 for it - after all, there can't be
more than a couple of grand's worth of materials in it - would it be OK to
steal one of those, too?

Crap analogy, but lets run with it... its the equivalent of Porche
physically preventing me buying a Boxter from (say) Hong Kong where they are
(say) half the price, even though they can apparently sell at a profit in
Hong Kong and their dealer in Hong Kong is very happy to sell me one.

Also, lets be quite clear, I am *not* stealing their product by downloading
it, because I was going to *buy it* from Hong Kong, and Hell Will Freeze
Over before I buy it in the UK, so they have lost nothing at all, they dont
get a sale in the UK to me in either case.


I'm not saying that the BPI approach is right, but CDs are luxury goods,
and
so, presumably, there is an least an element of "opportunity pricing."
They
can't really have a "value for money" as you're buying something
intangible
(although I think they're cheap compared with concerts, trips to the
cinema,
days out, etc.).


I really dont care. I want to take advantage of global pricing, just as
these companies do themselves when it comes to sourcing supplies and jobs.
All I ask is the same global supply opportunities the companies have. Thats
all I expect, a fair playing field.


Surely the approach of most right-thinking people who don't want to pay
for
luxury goods would be to go without, rather than to steal?

Companies clamour for global trade. And then when they get it, try and stop
it for their consumers!! They don't have any qualms about shutting down jobs
in this country in order to ship them somewhere cheaper, yet when I try and
buy from one of those cheaper places, they want to stop me. Its nothing
short of outrageous.

Surely the approach of most right-thinking people would be that if the
company can manufacture its products wherever it wants, I can buy them
wherever I want?

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:44:57 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote:

Why do you always equate raw materials with final cost? Nothing you buy
has a price that relates to raw materials.

I dont equate it, but I do consider some things to be a 'rip off'.

like mobile phone fascias at 9.99ukp a pop, or PCs at 1200ukp in PC world, or BK burger meals at over 4.00ukp with only a pathetic half-regular-from-5-years-back sized milkshake, etc.

99% of CDs on the market fall into the same category. Some are genuinely rare or hard to obtain recordings, and worth it, but the rest are mass manufactured garbage. Not to mention that many new ones explicitly remove (or try to) your right to back them up...

You obviously aren't used to buying things.

Heh. very funny.

--
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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:32:58 +0000, Ian Bell
wrote:

Tumbleweed wrote:

"The Artist" wrote in message
...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm


--
S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t

And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have
increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action
should remove them.


What a bloody stupid settlement. How can it infringe copyright to sell a
CD
originaly intended for sale in another country.

It can, though, cause problems when royalty and publishing deals are
made on a country-by-country basis, and also when suppliers apply
dubious practices to circumvent import duty requirements. The BPI has
acted entirely within EU law here ... and, bonkers as it may seem
that getting a CD delivered by airmail from the far east is cheaper
than buying locally, its still no possible justification for
copyright theft in the form of illicit PtoP sharing or downloading.

Julian


Please explain to me what they lose if I download something I would have
bought in Hong Kong and will not buy in the UK.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
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CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:39:18 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote:

It was just an example of a newly released film, in line with your
total boolox about paying 30 quid for a movie.

Not a very good example as you bought it from overseas before it was
even released in this country (so you couldnt have known its RRP here).

Out of interest, what region was the disc?

Very true. but I note you didnt disagree with my quoted ~10000%
markup estimate...

Markup of what? The raw materials?

How much do you think the raw materials of your precious BB3 cost?

Probably 100ukp for someone like me to buy from RS or so, and given Arcam dont sell massive numbers, probably about 75ukp to them.

I'd probably pay 200ukp for a new DAC (if any good ones were available at that price, but even if I could afford a four and a half grand DAC I wouldnt buy it because I KNOW the cost of the parts is far less, and the 'value' of the thing is NOT proportionally better than a 2nd hand DAC of good quality.

Based on my DBB3 purchase, and what I was *prepared* to spend on it, therefore, I'd say I would allow 100ukp for the design and production costs (per unit) on something like a DAC. and yes, thats about 200% markup, or 'profit' per unit. But a DAC is more difficult to design than a f*cking CD.

Most films, good or bad do NOT make their money at the box office. A
large proprotion of films do not make profit at all. Most films that
go into profit (eventually) do so with merchandising and the home
market.

I had meant to say will break even at the box office (at least). yes, merchandising is massive.

But still, Im not sure I would see value in a film that relied purely on its merchandising to turn a profit. (certain specialist type films excepted).

Unlike you I don't expect to get everything for nothing. I'm guessing
you live at home with your parents.

Nope. I live with my partner and three kids. Away from my parents.

As to the 'value added', yes, some are really good, but 90% odd are
just lame interviews (usually badly dubbed/edited) and a copy of the
theatrical trailer. big whoop.

Value added over the VHS equivalents I meant,

More backpeadalling... and still I disagree. the VHSes used to have trailers for other films on, at least some of which were worth the watch. Far more entertaining than a crap badly edited 'interview' that doesnt tell you anything...

the average price of
DVDs are very close to the (relative to inflation) prices paid for
sell through VHS in the early years.

Despite the fact DVDs cost FAR less to produce. (I bet you dont have a (good) answer for that one...)

You dont need to know anything about film production when you realise
the better (talented or known, you choose) actors actually park
BOEING 707s in their backyard (alongside their lear-jet).

As I said above, they are in the minority. Are you really naive enough
to think that is how all people in film production behave?

Of course not, but how many films do actors like that do (that actually made the money, not all the little stuff they did when no-one knew about them)?

maybe 10 films?

so, one person, after only 10 or so productions, has siphoned off enough to own TWO jets and live next to their own private runway, in a MASSIVE house with pots of cash?

If the other people involved inthe production allowed that to happen they *deserve* what they get.

I recon LoTR proved how well you can do without big names.

Now whos disengenious? We were talking about the *box set* of
futurama, not just single disc releases.

Which was 20 quid.

39.99 in tescos.

You started off this subthread by saying most
people pay 30 quid for new releases,

I said most new releases cost that much. I have no idea how many people are daft enough to buy them at those prices.

I download ALL the movies I want, initially. there is *no way* I was
going to buy LoTR disc 1, 2, and 3 seperately, only to find the
'special edition box set' released a couple of months later.

If you already had 1,2 and 3 why would you want the special box set?

As you well know, special or 2nd editions almost always have either more video, better sound, better video, more features (in the case of LoTR, probably worth having), or any combination of the above.

What was it I was saying about you having the upgrade bug in that
other thread?

I thought it was clear I didnt have the upgrade bug, having not bought the original version...

Cant really say no as I download stuff from p2p. But if they would
charge reasonable prices I'd buy the originals gladly.

The problem is you have no idea what reasonable is. You just want the
lowest prce possible. The two aren't the same thing you know.

If I wanted the lowest prices possible, I'd demand CDs for 10p per disc and DVDs for about a quid.

Im willing to pay 3-5UKP for a CD and 5-12ukp for a DVD (12 would be something like a set of all 3 LoTR)

probably. I dont regard a huge number of films as worth owning on any
media.

I'll bet it doesn't stop you downloading them to watch them though? If
you just want to see them why don't you either rent them, or buy them
and sell them after.

I download them, if they look like they are worth buying, I buy them (if I can find them at a reasonable price).

There's a burgeoning second hand DVD market you know.

Really. I wonder where Im getting those 5ukp DVDs then? Gosh, look at that, they're factory reconditioned...

Anyway the upshot is you were talking **** about 30 quid DVDs.

39.99, actually, and you can check for yourself in tescos.

Given
your previous comments in another thread with regard to Pinky's error
and apology,

He hasnt apologised to me, despite being downright rude (and wrong).

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:53:26 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote:

no. we take the coke and sandwiches/sweets/crisps/whatever. if we MUST have popcorn we buy it but not very often. We often make popcorn *at home to eat at home* though.

Don't you realise that the only reason cinemas stay in business is
through the popcorn and nacho stands etc.

I dont care. they have no right to dictate what I eat.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:01:01 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote:

btw. Do you meet the rest of the family inside the theatre? :)

eh?

So you don't have to pay for their tickets dummy.

Oh. no, I dont do that.

--
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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:56:08 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

I dont buy food from the cinema. Thats what large jackets are for ;-)

I might have know that you're as crooked as you are stupid and
ignorant...........

Whats crooked? I paid to watch the film, and I paid for my food.

Besides, many MANY films dont look as good on a TV size screen, and
DVDs look ****e on a big (like projection) screen anyway, if you're
lucky enough to have one.

They look as good as most of the prints you'll see at your local
fleapit - and that's without all the yapping and bag-scrunching.

I happen to know the projectionist at my local cinema, and the
screenings there look fine to me. Sound system isnt hifi but it can sure
give more atmosphere combined with the massive screen than my 28" TV
does here.

I try not to go when theres a lot of people there, and I like to sit near the front to fill my field of view. Oddly enough, most people dont like to sit near the front.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

So how much did the BPI force CDWow have to raise their prices by? They seem
quite cheap to me.

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:27:05 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote:

Oh you buy popcorn now? - that'll push your 3 quid night out up a bit
over the budget. eh?

haha.

Our local Warner Village multiplex

Ah yes. used to live near one of them. Cost nearly three times what I pay in my local cinema.

The screen was no bigger. The seats wernt more comfy. The sound system was (like most cinemas) crap.

The restaurants around it were about 1.5-2x the going rate of all the others in the same type in town, too (it was slightly out of town so I guess they figured they had a captive market.

Except for one, that is - the italian - which served better food than the rest anyway, and cost less. You can guess which one got our business.

Didnt I say that? oh yes, right...

I make that about 12ukp.

...there.

You started of by saying one could go to the flicks 10 times for the
price of a DVD. Which we now see is NOT always the case.

not always, but then, UI didnt say *always* did I ?

In the case of
a NORMAL family of 5 (or even 3) that is clearly nonsense.

I'd have thought I made it clear in my original post I was talking about one person.

*arguably* the benefits of the DVD *approach* the cinema trip once you add more people, but then the kids are usually quieter at the flicks than at home, and they dont keep running in and out of the room either.

In the case
of most families buying a DVD represents good value for money.

I dont think my copy of Dragonheart was better value because I have a family - its mine and no-one else wants to watch it anyhow. (it was good value though, as it only cost 6.99)

in
many cases, the DVD purchase would be cheaper. That is my point.

Make that in *some* cases (without implying more in the way many does) and fine, sure, whatever.

That doesnt mean the 30ukp releases arent extremely bad value for money.

Which was the RRP and list price in tescos.


Which you conveniently picked to serve your own prejudice.

And Kurt didnt pick a *free* DVD to serve his argument ?

It can be
clearly demonstrated that most DVDs cost nowhere near 29.99.

What region ?

As it can
be clearly demonstrated (as above) that DVDs offer reasonable value for
the "normal" asking prices for the normal family.

If you consider 12UKP a 'normal' asking price, yeah ok, perhaps. On the high side IMO but not too bad.

We are not all sad *******s like yourself.

Enough of that please.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
 

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:12:16 -0000
"Tumbleweed" wrote:


Companies clamour for global trade. And then when they get it, try and stop
it for their consumers!! They don't have any qualms about shutting down jobs
in this country in order to ship them somewhere cheaper, yet when I try and
buy from one of those cheaper places, they want to stop me. Its nothing
short of outrageous.

Good point, well made.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.