Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 15:50:06 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:19:20 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

I also know that
amplifiers sound different depending on what you place them on, I don't
think this, I know it! (True story told before).

You do know you said that out loud? He he...

I've never seen anyone do a better job of blowing his credibility
while trying to score a point.

Sorry to be utterly thick but having read, read again, and again I still
don't understand any of it. Firstly I was not point scoring I was making a
statement of belief, as for this "said out load" comment, no idea what
you're on about but it seems you were trying to personalize a
disagreement. This is usually done by the losing side in my experience.

He's not 'personalising' the argument, he's pointing out that anyone
who makes such a claim as you did above, does his credibility no good.
BTW, it was not a 'statement of belief', you claimed that you *know*
it to be the case.0, whereas any reasonable person would consider such
a claim to be highly dubious at best. Certainly, it qualifies as an
extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary proof. Do you have any?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

In message , Stewart
Pinkerton writes
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:19:20 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 19:25:32 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

[Snip]

Yes, they do.

No they B. don't.

Sure they do - why wouldn't they?

Another example, My Yamaha amp (recently retired) always
sounded hard and harsh to me, I purchased it from a box shifter as it was
a good price and I fancied a dabble with surround sound. On swapping to
the Av8/P7 the improvement in sound was staggering and it mattered not
which was played the loudest the AV8/P7 blew away the Yamaha by a good
margin.

It probably had high HF IMD, pretty common in that range, and I
suspect that was what gave away the AX-570 in my own tests. OTOH, if
you haven't tried that comparison under *blind* level-matched
conditions, then your opinion is not of any real value.


SNIP SNIP.

I've certainly measured amplifiers that are almost identical into an 8R
load, but do sound different into speakers. The truth is that the amps
are not equally good. If you measure the intermodulation when driving a
reactive (imitation speaker) load then the differences emerge quite
clearly.


--
Chris Morriss

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:21:19 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

[Snip]

You were not making a statement of belief - read what I quote from you
"I don't think this, I know". So you actually deny that it is belief,
but is fact. So make your mind up - do you believe it, or do you know
it? There is a huge difference.

I do know that amplifiers sound different because I proved some years ago
with an Hitachi mosfet amp. I did prove it.

Anyway, how exactly do you think (believe if you like) you are
advancing the argument by posting such unmitigated ********?

Is there any need for that kind of language. People who use such terms in
a public forum always make me think they're at the very least people of
dubious standards.

If you believe you are helping your side of the picture, think again -
you are just sounding stupid - almost as if you were religious or
something.

Oh I see, I don't agree with you and I know form personal experience about
one amplifier characteristic you decide I sound stupid. How open minded of
you.

Cheers,

Bob.

If you say so, Bob. You proved it... I'm still laughing, you know.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:21:37 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

If I'm continually fooling myself, why is it I consistently cannot hear
some things and consistently can hear others? Surely if I was convincing
myself this would not happen. Just for the record..

I can hear..

Interconnects - too easy.
Speaker leads - sometimes subtle sometimes more obvious. I've certainly
heard them change the brightness. Some have punchier bass.
Platforms under amps - again varies - once for me, quite astonishing.

I would say that almost anything placed in the analogue signal path which
is not audible is very much the exception.

I can't hear..

Absolute phase
Green pens
Day/night mains effects.
Miracle sticky pads or whatever PB comes up with.

Cheers,

Bob.

--
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

You don't actually live that far from Stew. If you are not full of
crap, but sincerely believe you have these abilities, then I think the
trip would be well worthwhile for you - both in terms of shutting the
rest of us up once and for all, and of course the small detail of a
huge wedge of cash in your pocket. As you stand at the moment you are
simply hot air.

I suggest you take your favourite high quality interconnects with you
as they will absolutely guarantee you walking away with the money.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Bob Latham wrote:

I have reported the story before on this group and frankly I am aware that
nothing I say or do will convince you (no I'm not going to drive to your
place to take the 1000UKP test).

If you can demonstrate the effect here, and show that it isnt merely
incompetant shielding, I'll make it 10G

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:01:41 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 19:21:19 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

[Snip]

You were not making a statement of belief - read what I quote from
you "I don't think this, I know". So you actually deny that it is
belief, but is fact. So make your mind up - do you believe it, or do
you know it? There is a huge difference.

I do know that amplifiers sound different because I proved some years
ago with an Hitachi mosfet amp. I did prove it.


[Snip]

If you say so, Bob. You proved it... I'm still laughing, you know.

Okay, the story very quickly.

In 1982 I was using a Hitachi mosfet power driving a pair of KEF R105s. I
was very happy with the sound until I moved house. The new house had an
under stairs cupboard accessed from the dining room not the lounge but did
have a brick wall onto the lounge where my hi-fi was. I had what I thought
was a great idea of putting this huge power amp on a wall shelf in this
cupboard and hence removing the monster from the lounge.

Try as I might for weeks and months I could not get rid of the woolly bass
and tried everything I could think of and was even considering changing my
beloved speakers. I then decided that I would put the system together
using the same cables etc. as I had used in the old house which meant the
power amp had to go back in the lounge and on the floor.

An hour or so later I switched back on and to my shock and delight the
woolly bass had gone and my system sounded great again. I was convinced
briefly that this must be cables and so one by one I substituted the
cables back to the ones that had been through the lounge wall. No effect,
the system was still fine. At this point I was scratching my head, I had
no explanation for what I had heard.

So I fed the wires back through the wall and put the amp back on the shelf
in the cupboard. I was stunned to hear the bass was woolly again. I tried
putting the amp on the carpeted floor in the cupboard - tight bass again.

So after months of bafflement it came down to the shelf the amp was sat
on. The differences were so obvious I did not need another opinion but I
did get a friend of mine Dr. John Lufran (yes I know, name dropper) to
come and listen for me and got my wife to try and fool us in the lounge
with where the amp was by pretending she'd moved it when she hadn't etc.

She never got near fooling us, it was far too obvious. That is how I KNOW
at least one solid state amp was changed by the surface it rested on and
if one does, then others can.

I cannot prove any of this other than to myself, my wife and John, but I'm
not a liar.

Cheers,

Bob.

What was this amp?

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Chris Morriss wrote:

I've certainly measured amplifiers that are almost identical into an 8R
load, but do sound different into speakers. The truth is that the amps
are not equally good. If you measure the intermodulation when driving a
reactive (imitation speaker) load then the differences emerge quite
clearly.


Only the incompetant amps...

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:34:00 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

[Snip]

What was this amp?

It was kit amp where you get a bag of bits and a couple of PCBs. It had 4
metal can TO3 power mosfets per channel. I think the name was Simmer or
something like that, a long time ago.

Please don't tell me I hadn't constructed them correctly that would be too
much.

Cheers,

Bob.

Well, it would perhaps reveal a genuine effect - that of acoustic
feedback - which could very well be responsible for the kind of effect
you describe. Whether that would arise from poor assembly on your part
or something intrinsic in the design of the kit, I could not say.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Bob Latham wrote:

I cannot prove any of this other than to myself, my wife and John, but I'm
not a liar.

if you still live there and want to prove it to me you only have to pay
my train fare...

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Ian Molton wrote:

Bob Latham wrote:


I have reported the story before on this group and frankly I am aware that
nothing I say or do will convince you (no I'm not going to drive to your
place to take the 1000UKP test).


If you can demonstrate the effect here, and show that it isnt merely
incompetant shielding, I'll make it 10G


I have no idea what the reason is, I wouldn't claim to.

isnt 10G enough for you? if someone offered me 10G to hop on the train
and perform a no-brain demo I'd be there in a flash...

Hot air is all you have.