Audio, hi-fi and car audio - Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's

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Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's

"Trevor Wilson" wrote

**Yes. I am not a musician. If a musician sees fit to make the sound
distorted in some way (ie: The guitar work in Beatles, Revolution), then
who am I to make alterations to that artistic content?

Additionally, if the input is sublimely perfect, any amp which distorts,
will ruin the goodness.

Sublimely perfect input??? Got any?

Got an amp which *doesn't* distort?? Not at all???

Such wonderful things....

As my old dad used to say: "Two wrongs do not make a right." **

Wise words, but let's get a little reality check here.

There's much tub-thumping about 'high fidelity' and 'straight wires with
gain' - like one type of amp absolutely fits these criteria and another type
don't. (Not to mention whatever input or amp is used, the speakers and the
room will have the final say, in any case....)

Like there are wise guys here and also idiots who put themselves through a
lot of extra effort and expense just to be bloody awkward or summat? Have a
little think for a minute - I don't know of *anyone* who uses valves (or has
got into valves) because he thinks they are *worse* than ss
amplification.....!!

What does that tell you? They got no place in this ng for a start? Or that
can subscribe here if they perform some sort of 'confession' or make an
obeisance to their (wiser) betters? Ever see a valvie give an ss type a hard
time because he doesn't like/use valves? Ask your self what TF the ss
brigade are so fekkin' scared of that they gotta make the sign of the cross
and start yammering about 'high fidelity' every time valves are mentioned?

Take a bloody good look at the Ship Of SS Fools you sail with when you add
to the 'antivalve' content in this ng, it's too ridiculous for words -
'audio amplifiers' that don't *qualify* for inclusion in an *audio*
newsgroup....???!!!

(It might make you feel better to know that I have 3 ss amps here, one of
which is used on a daily basis, OK...??)

**Three lefts can though.... ;-)

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Trevor Wilson" wrote

**Yes. I am not a musician. If a musician sees fit to make the sound
distorted in some way (ie: The guitar work in Beatles, Revolution),
then who am I to make alterations to that artistic content?

Additionally, if the input is sublimely perfect, any amp which
distorts, will ruin the goodness.

Sublimely perfect input??? Got any?

In context, any input which is as the musician intended, would be a
sublimely perfect input.

Got an amp which *doesn't* distort?? Not at all???

Amplifiers that are free of audible distortion would seem to qualify.

Such wonderful things....

Such common things in the 21st century.

As my old dad used to say: "Two wrongs do not make a right." **

Wise words, but let's get a little reality check here.

There's much tub-thumping about 'high fidelity' and 'straight wires
with gain' - like one type of amp absolutely fits these criteria and
another type don't. (Not to mention whatever input or amp is used,
the speakers and the room will have the final say, in any case....)

Are you saying that the fact that speakers have audible distortion gives us
a licence to prefer amplifiers that have audible distortion?

Like there are wise guys here and also idiots who put themselves
through a lot of extra effort and expense just to be bloody awkward
or summat? Have a little think for a minute - I don't know of
*anyone* who uses valves (or has got into valves) because he thinks
they are *worse* than ss amplification.....!!

Likewise, I don't know of *anyone* who uses SS (or has got into SS) because
he thinks
they are *worse* than valve amplification.....!!

What does that tell you?

That some people deify their preferences even if they include audible
distortion and noise?

They got no place in this ng for a start? Or
that can subscribe here if they perform some sort of 'confession' or
make an obeisance to their (wiser) betters?

Resolved, tubies and vinylites are not wiser betters.

Ever see a valvie give an
ss type a hard time because he doesn't like/use valves?

Sure, all the time.

Ask your self
what TF the ss brigade are so fekkin' scared of that they gotta make
the sign of the cross and start yammering about 'high fidelity' every
time valves are mentioned?

We are faced with the fact that while tubies have newsgroup dedicated to
them, they somehow feel the need to endlessly proseletyze general-interest
audio newsgroups.

Take a bloody good look at the Ship Of SS Fools you sail with when
you add to the 'antivalve' content in this ng, it's too ridiculous
for words - 'audio amplifiers' that don't *qualify* for inclusion in
an *audio* newsgroup....???!!!

(It might make you feel better to know that I have 3 ss amps here,
one of which is used on a daily basis, OK...??)

**Three lefts can though.... ;-)

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote

**Yes. I am not a musician. If a musician sees fit to make the sound
distorted in some way (ie: The guitar work in Beatles, Revolution), then
who am I to make alterations to that artistic content?

Additionally, if the input is sublimely perfect, any amp which distorts,
will ruin the goodness.

Sublimely perfect input??? Got any?

**Several.

Got an amp which *doesn't* distort?? Not at all???

**Several. None of which exhibit any AUDIBLE distortions. More to the point:
Do YOU have any amplifiers which exhibit no audible distortions, when used
with real-life loudspeakers?

Such wonderful things....

**Nope. Technically adequate.

As my old dad used to say: "Two wrongs do not make a right." **

Wise words, but let's get a little reality check here.

There's much tub-thumping about 'high fidelity' and 'straight wires with
gain' - like one type of amp absolutely fits these criteria and another
type don't.

**Few amplifiers actually fit that description, WHEN DRIVING REAL
LOUDSPEAKERS. Quite a few manage it with dummy loads and sine waves,
however.

(Not to mention whatever input or amp is used, the speakers and the
room will have the final say, in any case....)

**Strawman, duly noted.

Like there are wise guys here and also idiots who put themselves through a
lot of extra effort and expense just to be bloody awkward or summat? Have
a little think for a minute - I don't know of *anyone* who uses valves (or
has got into valves) because he thinks they are *worse* than ss
amplification.....!!

**I do. Quite a few, in fact. One of my clients sold his (rather excellent)
SS amplification and purchased some crappy valve amps. When questioned about
listening to his BEST quality recordings, he admitted that SS was superior.
Valves were, (in his opinion) better for average, crappy recordings.

What does that tell you? They got no place in this ng for a start?

**Not at all. I have stated, ad nauseum, that a REALLY GOOD valve amplifier
can sound indistinguishable from a good SS amp, given a suitably benign load
impedance. There is nothing wrong with a well designed, well exectued valve
amp. Except that such an amp will almost always cost significantly more than
an approximately equivalent SS model. The differece come about when we are
discussing, cheap, crappy valve amps. They, almost without exception,
exhibit audible distortion, even when driving modest loads.

Or that
can subscribe here if they perform some sort of 'confession' or make an
obeisance to their (wiser) betters?

**Education never hurt anyone.

Ever see a valvie give an ss type a hard
time because he doesn't like/use valves?

**Every single day.

Ask your self what TF the ss
brigade are so fekkin' scared of that they gotta make the sign of the
cross and start yammering about 'high fidelity' every time valves are
mentioned?

**I don't. REALLY GOOD valve amps easily conform to 'High Fidelity'
standards. No problem. Cheap, crappy valve amps, often do not.

Take a bloody good look at the Ship Of SS Fools you sail with when you add
to the 'antivalve' content in this ng, it's too ridiculous for words -
'audio amplifiers' that don't *qualify* for inclusion in an *audio*
newsgroup....???!!!

**And again: REALLY GOOD valve amps are, in every sense, high fidelity
products. They can easily expose the faults in recordings. Equally, they are
easily capable of allowing the goodness shine through. In fact, the last
valve amp, I listened to, which I could easily live with, was the Audio
Research VT100. Trouble is, I regularly listen to an SS amp which
outperforms the VT100 at a significantly lower cost.

(It might make you feel better to know that I have 3 ss amps here, one of
which is used on a daily basis, OK...??)

**Means nothing to me. There are some crappy SS amps on the market. Many are
quite good when driving (resistive) dummy loads, but fall flat on their
face, when driving real loudspeakers. Perhaps you need to listen to an amp
which can actually cope with speakers. Any of the small Rotel models fit
that bill quite nicely.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's

"Trevor Wilson" wrote

Additionally, if the input is sublimely perfect, any amp which distorts,
will ruin the goodness.

Sublimely perfect input??? Got any?

**Several.

You do? What are they?

Got an amp which *doesn't* distort?? Not at all???

**Several. None of which exhibit any AUDIBLE distortions. More to the
point: Do YOU have any amplifiers which exhibit no audible distortions,
when used with real-life loudspeakers?

None of my amps disort audibly that I or anyone else here can detect. (What,
do you think we sit here listening to 'audible distortion'...??? :-)

There's much tub-thumping about 'high fidelity' and 'straight wires with
gain' - like one type of amp absolutely fits these criteria and another
type don't.

**Few amplifiers actually fit that description, WHEN DRIVING REAL
LOUDSPEAKERS.

No need to shout, me auld shagger...

Quite a few manage it with dummy loads and sine waves, however.

(Not to mention whatever input or amp is used, the speakers and the
room will have the final say, in any case....)

**Strawman, duly noted.

Geekboy 'Usenet' terminology duly noted.....

(You been talking to the other opinionated, non-UK loudmouth that hangs
around in here by any chance?)

Like there are wise guys here and also idiots who put themselves through
a lot of extra effort and expense just to be bloody awkward or summat?
Have a little think for a minute - I don't know of *anyone* who uses
valves (or has got into valves) because he thinks they are *worse* than
ss amplification.....!!

**I do. Quite a few, in fact. One of my clients sold his (rather
excellent) SS amplification and purchased some crappy valve amps. When
questioned about listening to his BEST quality recordings, he admitted
that SS was superior. Valves were, (in his opinion) better for average,
crappy recordings.

That's me sorted then.... :-)

What does that tell you? They got no place in this ng for a start?

**Not at all. I have stated, ad nauseum, that a REALLY GOOD valve
amplifier

You're shouting again - do try to hold it together, there's a good chap.

can sound indistinguishable from a good SS amp, given a suitably benign
load impedance. There is nothing wrong with a well designed, well exectued
valve amp. Except that such an amp will almost always cost significantly
more than an approximately equivalent SS model. The differece come about
when we are discussing, cheap, crappy valve amps. They, almost without
exception, exhibit audible distortion, even when driving modest loads.

Who's discussing cheap, crappy valve amps? - That's your usual (what's that
term - 'strawman'?) little injection into the proceedings isn't it??

Or that
can subscribe here if they perform some sort of 'confession' or make an
obeisance to their (wiser) betters?

**Education never hurt anyone.

Agreed - try some.

Ever see a valvie give an ss type a hard
time because he doesn't like/use valves?

**Every single day.

Must be hell....

Ask your self what TF the ss
brigade are so fekkin' scared of that they gotta make the sign of the
cross and start yammering about 'high fidelity' every time valves are
mentioned?

**I don't. REALLY GOOD valve amps easily conform to 'High Fidelity'
standards. No problem. Cheap, crappy valve amps, often do not.

Again with the 'cheap, crappy valve amps' - you really don't have an
argument do you? Why not just say *broken* amps and be done with it???

Take a bloody good look at the Ship Of SS Fools you sail with when you
add to the 'antivalve' content in this ng, it's too ridiculous for
words - 'audio amplifiers' that don't *qualify* for inclusion in an
*audio* newsgroup....???!!!

**And again: REALLY GOOD valve amps are, in every sense, high fidelity
products. They can easily expose the faults in recordings. Equally, they
are easily capable of allowing the goodness shine through.

Stoppit, please - most of us just chuck the ****ing music on and listen to
it. We ain't 'measuring' it or giving it marks out of ten! We play it the
best way we like to hear it - is that really too hard to understand??

The trouble with you *extreme* CD/SS types is you really got nowhere to go,
have you? It can't be vinyl, it can't be valves, it can't be MP3s, it can't
be 24/92 or 24/192, it can't be AM, it can't be DAB, it can't be 78s, it
can't be cassettes, it can't be mono etc. etc. etc..

Fekkin' priceless......

In fact, the last valve amp, I listened to, which I could easily live
with, was the Audio Research VT100. Trouble is, I regularly listen to an
SS amp which outperforms the VT100 at a significantly lower cost.

I wouldn't worry about that - you're off the hook, ain't yer?

(It might make you feel better to know that I have 3 ss amps here, one of
which is used on a daily basis, OK...??)

**Means nothing to me. There are some crappy SS amps on the market.

Really? That's news to me - can you name one current, freely available (in
the UK, of course) make and model??

Many are quite good when driving (resistive) dummy loads, but fall flat on
their face, when driving real loudspeakers. Perhaps you need to listen to
an amp which can actually cope with speakers. Any of the small Rotel
models fit that bill quite nicely.

Read *all* my words (or don't bother to respond to any of them) - I've
already told you I have owned and used a number of Rotel amps. I don't have
them any more - now, does that tell you summat?? Kills me the way you
'anti****s' try to fit this group up with your own wacky little prejudices
and then try to wipe it off on those of us who have declared time and time
again we don't give a rat's arse what you or anyone else prefers or uses....

Still, if it makes you happy.....???

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" emitted :

Ever see a valvie give an ss type a hard
time because he doesn't like/use valves? Ask your self what TF the ss
brigade are so fekkin' scared of that they gotta make the sign of the
cross
and start yammering about 'high fidelity' every time valves are mentioned?

Damn good points, Keith...

My observation - they intellectualize a predominantly spiritual
experience, and the attacks are an attempt to bolster low self esteem
because it's an opportunity to be 'intellectually superior'.

Pure folly..

Yep, despite their attempts to dominate opinion in this group, I suspect
they haven't prevented the *single* acquistion of a valve amp by anyone who
wanted to give one a whirl.... ;-)

(Same with turntables - it's the same loopy bunch....)

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's

Paul Dormer wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :

You are the guys who get all '****ed off' when the obvious failings
of valve amps (and the bull**** you claim for them) are pointed out.

Your numerous mechanical watches are less accurate than a £1.99
digital watch which can be had from any market stall. End of.

The point being that I really doubt Stuart would class them as 'better'
in that respect.

that said, the quality of the engineering in a good mechanical watch is
going to be LIGHT years ahead of a 1.99 digital watch, and I'll bet
it'll last a damn sight longer before disintegrating.

And in case anyone is wondering, my choice of watch is a 5ukp
bungie-cord watch which I find easier to take off, and doesnt get sweaty
under its strap since it doesnt have to hug to my skin. if I need it to
not get in the way I push it further up my arm.

its waterproof to at least as deep as the bottom of the diving area of a
swimming pool.

its indestructible and small.

it doesnt show seconds. It can show the date but only because the
manufacturers used an off the shelf clock - the button is inaccessible ;-)

It seems to be exactly 2 mins and 57 seconds slow, which is exactly the
same difference as last time I checked it about 2 months ago. Not bad at
all.

its only downside is if it ends up on the outside of my sleeve it gets
shoehorned off my arm, but thats a rare occurence.

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's

Keith G wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote

**Good. Then you'll understand exactly what I mean.

Yes, except that I can't truly see the merits of any amp which will pump
'garbage out' no matter what the input (even digital), can you...???

;-)

Uhm, the amp doesn't know what the contents of the input signal are. It
just amplifies whatever it is fed (obviously within the amp's limits).

It isn't like software where the software should not produce any output
at all if garbage data is fed to it.

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's

Paul Dormer wrote:

"Tat Chan" emitted :

You are the guys who get all '****ed off' when the obvious failings
of valve amps (and the bull**** you claim for them) are pointed out.

Your numerous mechanical watches are less accurate than a £1.99
digital watch which can be had from any market stall. End of.

but is accuracy the factor behind buying mechanical watches?

Is *accuracy* THE factor behind buying audio equipment? Not for
everyone.

for audiophiles, it should be the main factor.

To make a fine distinction, some people go for what they
*perceive* as being more accurate.

sure, but sometimes perception doesn't reflect what is actually going on.

Others just don't give a crap about
accuracy, per se. Neither group are "wrong".

sure, no problems with that, everyone has their own preferences.

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's

Paul Dormer wrote:

"Tat Chan" emitted :

Yes, except that I can't truly see the merits of any amp which will pump
'garbage out' no matter what the input (even digital), can you...???

;-)

Uhm, the amp doesn't know what the contents of the input signal are.

I think Keith was being a bit facetious, but there's merit to what
he's saying if you accept his POV as a subjective listener. An amp may
interact with the signal in a generally positive way, or

what, like an overdriven guitar valve amp?

;)

or simply have
characteristics that results in just about everything sounding more
palatable.

but that would be like a graphic equaliser or tone control that can
never be turned off, wouldn't it?

i.e. would sound great for certain recordings, but can reduce other
recordings to muck