Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

"Phil North" wrote in message
...


Keith G wrote:
"Phil North" wrote in message
...

Now if people buying valve gear would just say its because they *prefer*
the sound rather than saying the sound is *better* (how can it be given
SS systems can reproduce it), there would be no problems :-)

Is it possible to prefer something and not think that it is better at the
same time?



Yep, I love/prefer my old Luxman tuner (or would, if I could get a decent
signal) but I bet it's not really in Leagues, Division 1 or 2 really....


Ah, now I get it.. if you were to offer me a doner kebab or some sort of
lobster salad 9 times out of 10 I'd have the kebab. Stone cold sober too.



OK, tricky examples - either way you could end up with a case of Los
Squittos if you were unlucky, but yes, summat along those lines....



Btw, the second amp finally turned up this afternoon - how's yours
going??


It's very good. I put the first Kings of Leon album (vinyl) on last night
and to my ears it was superb, a real WOW moment.


Ooh dear, we don't want too many of them in here, do we??

(Upsets the meter readers, you see.... ;-)


I had a quick listen to a Blur CD and was equally impressed, but I think
Metallica
may have to stay solid state for now - at least until I've tried them


Metallica s/b banned IMO, there is/was a 12" 45 here (bluish/goldish cover
with a bit of red and a Death's Head on it??) - yours if it turns up!!


out on my better speakers anyway.
Whatever my ears tell me is what I'll go with


Hmmm, that won't suit a few here either - they'll be wanting to tell you
which way you *need* to go!


and I'm looking forward to going through my music collection to see how it
all sounds, but how to find the time and go to work?


OK, there is a solution, but it's *extreme*........

;-)

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

In article , Jim Lesurf wrote:
... my concerns a

1) That the consumer press at times misleads people and impedes
understanding, and hence may hold back further progress in producing items
that the consumers concerned might prefer in their own terms.

Yes, this is certain. However, this has been the case for the last 25
years at least and pregress is still made quietly behind the scenes.

I recall abandoning Wireless World and HFNRR as a student in the late
seventies for their increasingly popularist approaches. And as for
Scientific American - can you imagine today being given detailed plans
for your own Zinc/Sulphur-powered rocket or plans for an X-ray machine
capable of photographing the bones of your own hand?

That the popular literature these days is more for the light entertainment
of the non-scientifically-oriented than for the enlightenment of those
who appreciate the engineering side is not a matter of judgement of
either POV but a recognition of the economics of publication.

CP Snow had the core of the issue more or less right in "The Two Cultures
and the Scientific Revolution" in 1959 (AIUI from reputation and from
reading commentiaries on the web - I have not read it personally - see
the four-paragraph summary at http://www.datasync.com/~pwilz/snow1.htm).

Reproduction of audio and music is a place where the two cultures
inevitably clash.

2) That I wish to understand the 'why' and 'how' of such matters. Partly as
a matter of personal curiousity. Partly as I'd like to be able to help
those who wish to make 'better' items - including ones like valve amps for
those who prefer them.
...

So would I. However I do not know where to go for this, short of a
subscription to JAES, except places like this where I drop in from time
to time between bouts of business travel to see who's arguing with whom,
and for the occasional nugget of value (value to me, that is).

--
John Phillips

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:27:01 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
.. .
"Keith G" emitted :

Swim = SWMBO

I put a clart piece on she says it's OK. I put it on a valve amp she says
it's 'very real'. I put it on the triode amp she says it's the 'most real
yet' - who am I to argue???

"Clart"???

Gotta know what this mean... please elucidate.. ;-)

Clart = Clartfart = B flat Clarinet !! ;-)

Mistakenly thought by some to be an easy instrument to reproduce with audio
kit - not so to a player's ear, believe you me...!!!

Put it another way - I can have something pretty loud on and Swim can enter
the room and cut it in half with a 'toot on her floot'!! (Clarinet, that
is... ;-)

Interesting, then, that the late, great John Bowers used to play a
live clarinet at Hi-Fi shows, then stop playing at a preset point and
let a recording take over, to demonstrate the quality of B&W speakers.
Very effective demo, no one ever seemed to notice the difference until
he took the clarinet out of his mouth! He did of course always use SS
amps for this demo....................

So, while it might be most unwise for *you* to argue with your own
SWMBO - might damage the clarinet if bashed over such a thick skull -
*we* can certainly argue with her.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:29:12 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
.. .
"Keith G" emitted :

**Nope. A DIY'er is, by definition, after a bargain (or an education).
Further, it is safe to assume that his choice of speakers suggests that
he
is on a tight budget. If I am wrong, I will be happy to retract my
assumption.

Absolute ******** - a very unsafe presumption at best...

Yep.. consider Graham (The Devil) Trevor... I don't believe he's below
the poverty level, yet he builds/mods his own amps...

Quite and plenty of people go the DIY route to use the *best* (most
expensive) components and to see the job's done right....

Quite so. Tell me where I can buy a passive controller fitted with a
Penny&Giles pot, Pickering ruthenium-tipped relays, and Neutrik
gold-pinned XLR connectors, just for starters. No active devices, so
just as acceptable to valvies! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:09:19 +0000, Phil North
wrote:

Now if people buying valve gear would just say its because they *prefer*
the sound rather than saying the sound is *better* (how can it be given
SS systems can reproduce it), there would be no problems :-)

Is it possible to prefer something and not think that it is better at
the same time?

Yes. I prefer to wear a mechanical wris****ch, but I cheerfully
ackowledge that it's not as good a timekeeper as the average £5 job
off the market. I have no problem with anyone preferring a valve
amplifier, but valvies seem to have this desperate need to *justify*
their preference with bull**** claims about 'inner detail' etc.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's
 

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian Molton" wrote in message


that said, the quality of the engineering in a good mechanical watch
is going to be LIGHT years ahead of a 1.99 digital watch, and I'll bet
it'll last a damn sight longer before disintegrating.


Depends how you define quality engineering. No doubt the chip in the digital
watch is produced to finer mechanical tolerances.

I dont know about that. how big is the typical mask for a relatively
coarse chip making process such as in a watch?

I guess its possible its bigger than some of the smaller components in a
classical watch. (thats a guess though). the chip is produced by
shrinking the mask optically onto the silicon wafer...

As far as watches disintegrating goes, its been decades since I replaced a
digital watch because it stopped working and couldn't be resucistated with a
cheap battery.

I dunno about you, but the 1.99ukp cheapies dont seem to last more than
a year, maybe three before the strap goes...

I usually end up replacing my watches for reasons of appearance, a problem
that extends to cheap mechnaical watches as well.

True.

Note that there are very few truely mechanical cheap watches - most of them
have a chip oscillator or some kind of battery-powered gizmo near their
heart.

Having repaired a few cheapies Im aware of that :-)

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" emitted :

**Nope. A DIY'er is, by definition, after a bargain (or an education).
Further, it is safe to assume that his choice of speakers suggests that
he
is on a tight budget. If I am wrong, I will be happy to retract my
assumption.

Absolute ******** - a very unsafe presumption at best...

Yep.. consider Graham (The Devil) Trevor... I don't believe he's below
the poverty level, yet he builds/mods his own amps...

**And he can verify the performance parameters of every one of them. From
what I've read, they meet or exceed what would be termed 'hi fi' parameters.
BTW: Graham is on record as being rather a fan of the small Rotel
integrateds. And rightly so.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


Take a SS amp, add about 4-5 tubes that are not in the signal path but
receive power, and watch the tubies fall for it.

**Heheh. I'll go one better. Last year I received two old 3 Watt/ch valve
(PP) amps in for repair. Two of the four output transformers were shot,
along with most of the electros, a goodly number of resistors, all the
output valves and most of the paper caps. I offered the client two deals:

1) I'll restore it to original condition for around AUS$1,000.00.
2) For about AUS$300.00, I'll attempt a partial repair, which, if he was not
happy, would get his money refunded.

He chose deal #2. I stuck two power OP amps inside, rolled off the frequency
extremes, left the filaments connected and gave it back.

He reported back to me that his amps had never sounded so good. And
rightfully so. He now had around 3 times the power output.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale Diamond II's
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
**Heheh. I'll go one better. Last year I received two old 3 Watt/ch valve (PP) amps in for repair. Two of the four output
transformers were shot, along with most of the electros, a goodly number of resistors, all the output valves and most of the
paper caps. I offered the client two deals:

1) I'll restore it to original condition for around AUS$1,000.00.
2) For about AUS$300.00, I'll attempt a partial repair, which, if he was not happy, would get his money refunded.

He chose deal #2. I stuck two power OP amps inside, rolled off the frequency extremes, left the filaments connected and gave it
back.

He reported back to me that his amps had never sounded so good. And rightfully so. He now had around 3 times the power output.

You've used this story here before.

"I bet you use that line on all the girls". Tart.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

Valve amp (preferably DIY) to drive apair of Wharfedale DiamondII's
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:09:09 +0000, Ian Molton used
to say...

The point is a (competant) SS system can sound *exactly* like ANY valve
system, so arguably anyone buying valve gear is resricting their choice
of reproduction styles.

You must be missing something. All the zealots in here (including
unsuccessful ones and wannabees) maintain that competant amps do the
exact opposite of what you maintain above.

If you bothered to pay attention you'd have noticed I said *system* not amp.

in a proper SS setup (ie. one that is *capable of* linear, distortion
free reproduction) one would be able to apply tone control of various
types in order to generate any desired output characteristics.

Given that 'better' is a subjective term, or alternately a way of
describing something subjectively, then if someone prefers one over the
other then it is indeed better.

since when was better a subjective term. it requires a context.

That is something the meter readers fail to comprehend.

On the contrary. my meter reader helps get my gas bills right, and they
get worse every time...