Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , Andy Evans
wrote:
I have yet to hear much that I have liked from the world music
programming.


I know what you mean. Some of it is rather primitive, but nonetheless
talked about in hushed tones of reverence. "This is a clandestine tape
recording of Afghan dog-calling music by the El' Shakti Abdullah
brothers, one of a long line of dog-callers stretching back to the
empire of Al'Haroum" etc. etc. But at the same time it's great to hear
some of the really good world music - stuff like Balkan Kola music -
things that I've known and liked for years finally surfacing.

FWIW I have a liking for various sorts of 'Indian' classical music. However
in the 'world music' I've heard on R3 this does not seem to get much of an
airing. My reactions to the rest of what gets broadcast under this label
seem as varied as the actual music.


Early music - on the other hand - gets the bum's rush almost at the
first note. I resent the 'political' decision that I ought to like early
music because it's authentic.


We do seem to have been through a period where 'authentic' was regarded as
being somehow important in itself. However although I'm not really a fan of
early music I find it more bearable than a lot of the 20th century "first
and last performance in our time" atonal, serial, etc, stuff that the BBC
used to keep on filling up time with! :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Pearce

My understanding is that DAB has - in principle - the capability to
work very well indeed. The snag being that bean-counters have decided
that quantity counts for more than quality....


Did I not see: "So far I have carefully avoided listening to DAB."
somewhere recently....???

You did. :-)

(I would be very sorry to see *you* clambering aboard the 'Bull****
Bandwagon' in here, Jimbo!! I always thought your comments and opinions
were based on the very best of empirical testing methods and
first-hand, personal experience....??)

Yes and no. Where I can, I base my comments on my own experience and
understanding. However I also consider the views of others and try to judge
them in terms of the evidence offerred, and how consistent they are with
physics, engineering practice, etc.

In this case my personal experience is that:

1) FM works here quite nicely.

2) So does the sound on DTTV

3) I have had one 'trial' of DAB, via the exchange of CD-Rs I think I
reported earlier. This was a BBCR3 concert.

Given that I am generally happy with FM/DTTV at present I've seen no urgent
need to take a more active interest in DAB as yet.

FWIW my initial reaction to (3) was that I preferred the FM version of the
concert to the DAB version. However I listened a number of times, and also
examined the recordings in various ways. I was aware that my initial
preference may have been due to 'conditioning' and getting a result that
sounded familiar. In time, my view of this became more balanced and I can
see virtues in both versions. But this was just one experimental test, and
only on BBCR3.

I have also noticed repeated reports that DAB uses for many stations much
lower bitrates than DTTV tends to employ for the same BBC transmissions.
Given that they employ a data reduction scheme, the bitrate can have
implications for quality.

It also was not available in my area until relatively recently.

Hence as yet I have seen no need to give it a try, and reasons for
hesitating to do so. I take serously the comments people have made about
DAB quality, but at some point I may well buy a tuner and form my own
views.

FWIW I was initially hesitant about the sound of DTTV and DVD video
(recording) as these also tend to employ data reduction. However having
tried them I'd now say that they can produce pretty good results, and that
the bitrates, etc, seem adequate.

So, I do change my views sometimes in the light of fresh experience, or
when provided with suitable relevant evidence. Don't you? :-)

Indeed, the above should show why I am always interested in the *evidence*
people may have for statements they make. The aim is to learn, and perhaps
modify my views or theirs where appropriate.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Amp swap disappointment
 

Hi,

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:44:33 +0000, Eiron wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

(About DAB radio)

More fool me - it isn't worth buying (apart from Radio 3). Get
freeview or satellite instead for digital radio - it works.

It is worth getting, just for Radio 3.
A £50 Argos special through a decent amp and speakers is excellent.

But a £50 Freeview box gets you that - at an even better bit rate,
plus a heap more radio at decent bit rate, plus a load of TV channels
which are, of course utter dreck.

I agree with all of that, except that Freeview gets you BBC3 and BBC4,
which I would put in the 'better than dreck' category!

FWIW, I sold my DAB tuner and bought an FM aerial with the proceeds. Now
I mostly use the satellite box for my radio.
--
Glenn.
Glenn Booth

Amp swap disappointment
 

In message , Eiron
writes
Andy Evans wrote:


What I do listen to on the BBC is Radio 4 which is
probably the only channel that hasn't gone downhill.

You must be new in this country.
Just compare R4 with fifteen or twenty years ago.
The comedy is crap, the presenters have a Radio One
"matey" attitude and mock their subjects, The Archers
is full of Lynda Snell, and as for "Veg Talk"....

Bring back Brian Johnston, Alistair Cooke and Roy Plomley.


And presenters who can speak English, instead of sounding as if they
were brought up in the Essex marshes.
--
Chris Morriss

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On 10 Dec 2004 10:14:22 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

A while ago I would have done the same, but no longer. I don't mind the jazz
and world music on radio 3 but some of the new trends make it impossible for me
to listen to for extended periods. Partly the personality-led stuff like
private passions which is plummy Brit at its worst, but mainly the assumption
that we want to listen to early music all day, then more early music
programmes, then a few bits of early music as fillers then the same again
tomorrow. If I hear another medieval chant or countertenor I think I'll throw
up.

I like the early music; it's all the modern (post 1827) stuff they
play between the early music that puts me off. ;-)

You just don't get the warm and open sound on modern instruments that
you get on period instruments.

One of the good points about R3 is that it covers a wide range of
musical styles. It would be much the poorer if it only played insert
your favourite style of music here all the time. Although it is not
my scene, I would not be in favour of R3 dropping late romantic or
modern music in favour of the earlier music that I like.


--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

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In article ,
Glenn Booth wrote:
But a £50 Freeview box gets you that - at an even better bit rate,
plus a heap more radio at decent bit rate, plus a load of TV channels
which are, of course utter dreck.

I agree with all of that, except that Freeview gets you BBC3 and BBC4,
which I would put in the 'better than dreck' category!

But be careful with some of the cheap Freeview boxes. The Thompson one on
current offer at about 35 quid from Curry's is composite video out only -
no RGB. That bit's been chopped out. Probably used the cheapest analogue
audio chips too.

FWIW, I sold my DAB tuner and bought an FM aerial with the proceeds. Now
I mostly use the satellite box for my radio.

Any receiver works better with a decent aerial - including digital of any
type.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Amp swap disappointment
 

I like the early music; it's all the modern (post 1827) stuff they play between
the early music that puts me off. ;-)

How many nom-de-plumes do you use to write in three times a day asking for more
early music on R3? I think I may have tracked down the mastermind behind
this......

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Amp swap disappointment
 

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:42:26 +1100, Tat Chan
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:21:26 +1100, Tat Chan
wrote:


In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

Will you tell him how FM transmitters are fed, or shall I?

Surely not MP3? ;)

(there are some radio stations that use MP3 instead of CD)

No - NICAM ! How do you like that?

No experience with NICAM, as we don't use it where I am. From the specs,
isn't NICAM superior to the Beeb's FM stereo transmission (14-bit vs
13-bit, not sure about the sample rates)?

Nope, as the Beeb system isn't linear, but uses sliding bits. It's
probably equivalent to 15-bit linear PCM, hence more than adequate for
the dynamic range of FM radio.

Remember, there is no point in having a bit depth greater than the
dynamic range of the medium. There is no known music master tape with
a dynamic range greater than 80-85dB, i.e. 14 bits.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Amp swap disappointment
 

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:49:48 +1100, Tat Chan
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tat Chan wrote:

And how all the best sounding LPs for about 20 years have been
mastered?



Not trolling, but were they mastered using digital and SS technology?


Yes. The important bit is the digital mastering to get rid of the 'curse'
of analogue tape.

I'm going to be a bit loose with my terms here, as I don't have too much
idea about recording.

What is the 'curse' of analogue tape?

Poor dynamic range, and inevitable quality loss with each generation
of copies.

I thought that the "master" tape
was the best hi-fi source, as it doesn't get better than the master
tape. Have recording studios have moved on to digital media (digital
recording on tape, or straight to hard drive)?

Top studios have been recording digitally to tape for more than 20
years, some for 30.

Really well engineered valve amps throughout the chain
wouldn't have really been an issue, but of course by then they'd well
since disappeared, since consols required more and more channels they'd
have imposed rather too many restrictions.

There was a brief period when direct cut discs offered the sort of quality
I was after - assuming it was the type of music where this was practical.
But with the advent of digital recording, they all but disappeared.

Sorry, what does digital recording have to do with cutting a LP?

You can get the same dynamic range as a direct-cut LP, which wasn't
possible from analogue masters.

Did direct cut discs not have to undergo the necessary
processing/equalisation to enable a transfer from the master tape to vinyl?

No, because there *is* no master tape. Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

And then along came the CD. ;-)

Straight off the master tape, eh?

Exactly!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , Jim Lesurf wrote:
We do seem to have been through a period where 'authentic' was regarded as
being somehow important in itself. However although I'm not really a fan of
early music I find it more bearable than a lot of the 20th century "first
and last performance in our time" atonal, serial, etc, stuff that the BBC
used to keep on filling up time with! :-)

I guess you didn't tune in for Radio 3's "John Cage Uncaged" weekend
earlier this year?

Actually it was Cage's teacher - Henry Cowell - who impressed me more
through a performance of his 1928 piano concerto during the weekend.
Its tone clusters were played by Philip Mead wearing protective mittens.
I hope the piano didn't suffer too much.

In spite of my own tastes, I suspect Cowell still falls into your
final category above. Can we start a baroque versus contemporary music
flamewar, or is it off-topic here?

--
John Phillips