Why cheap Chinese amps are not the chopping block for high-end tube amps
 

" Dave xxxx" wrote in message
.uk...
Keith G wrote:
Keith likes to brag about the cheap chinese amps that sound so well.



Oi! I heard that!

is it me Keith or does patrick just talk rubbish ?

none of what he says about you is true


:-)

Cheque's in the post Dave!! :-)

Pat's alright mostly - he's just got a lot of Sinophobic Steam to let off. I
don't mind up 'til the point he becomes just another 'auslander' telling us
pore Brits what to do. It's 'geographical' - mebbe we'd be the same if we
were professional amp builders getting bombed with a lot of cheapo French
amps...!!

:-P

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

Keith G wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


Andre Jute wrote:

One day in
1990 I walked into my study, switched on my B&O which had served me
faithfully for a decade, and said, That's a bleeding cold sound, and
instead of starting work started looking for a good pair of Quad II
amps such as I used to drive my first ESL in the far ago and long ago.

Why didn't you say before ? Explains a lot.

Did you seriously expect B&O to be the pinnacle of SS amplification ? Jeez
! It's
simply 'eye candy' for the rich who know no better.



Ooh, that's a bit *narrow* innit?

Poopie's a fat guy. He'd have trouble fitting through the hole in the
ozone. *Envy* is probably more like it. The way things work with these
stalkers, of which Poopie is only the latest, is that whatever I say,
they say is wrong. (Or even more entertainingly, whatever I do or did
they deny I ever did, then claim they can do it better. We had a lovely
example in the last few days, with Pinkerton denying that I did a
heroic journey but nonetheless promising to beat -- in his little
hatchback! -- a time I set at half his age in a huge V8 showroom racer,
and then having to backpedal furiously when he discovered the length
and nature of the journey, entirely unsuitable for a fellow pushing 60,
or for his twee little shopping trolley.) If I attacked B&O as
overpriced crap, Poopie would be in here hotly defending B&O and
abusing me as an ignoramus. Pay no heed.

I haven't heard a lot of B&O gear, but what I have sounded pretty damn good
to me....???

I had a B&O turntable with a little tube amp built in when I was a
student; it was superb. (I dreamed of playing the guitar like Andres
Segovia.) I replaced that with ESL and Quad II when I could afford it.
History repeats itself.

Andre Jute

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

Keith G wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


Andre Jute wrote:

One day in
1990 I walked into my study, switched on my B&O which had served me
faithfully for a decade, and said, That's a bleeding cold sound, and
instead of starting work started looking for a good pair of Quad II
amps such as I used to drive my first ESL in the far ago and long ago.

Why didn't you say before ? Explains a lot.

Did you seriously expect B&O to be the pinnacle of SS amplification ? Jeez
! It's
simply 'eye candy' for the rich who know no better.

Ooh, that's a bit *narrow* innit?

I haven't heard a lot of B&O gear, but what I have sounded pretty damn good
to me....???

It's nothing special frankly. Clever marketing though.

Graham

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in


(Hope some of this was useful and it wasn't too boring...??? :-)

Naw, not boring at all. In fact, thanks for the full reply.


You're welcome - needless to say, I took the opportunity to make a point or
two for the benefit of *one or two* in ukra.

My 2A3 SET webpage has garnered no less than 4 'inspirationals' from email
correspondents so far

An asirant writer who wanted me to give him introductions, a total
stranger, wrote to me once that reading my book "Writing a Thriller"
"was the most seminal experience of my life". I wrote back asking,
"Including your wedding night?" and didn't hear from him again...

and I have a similar string of people atm who are
getting piffed up to try their hand at FR speakers. We keep in touch and
swap information and pix. (Wot else are like-minded hobbyists expected to
do?)

My finest effort to date has been to 'mentor' (OK - 'blind leading the
blind' :-) a chap in Brussels from *never* having picked up a soldering
iron to knocking this out this little beauty just before Christmas:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Zuheyr's%20ANkit.JPG

(Only took us **34** days.....!!! :-)))

Nice. There is no point in hurrying a kit. You pay for he pleasure of
building it as much as for the design and the components.

Also note his 'Dynavox' (same thing, badged 'Audio Institute'):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Zuheyr's%20Dynavox.JPG

(Trust me, he's like a dog with 22 dicks at a) the amp anyway and b) having
built it himself!)

Now, if that ain't contributing to my *hobby* in a constructive way, I don't
know what TF is....???

(Which is why I get a bit ticked off when people like Pat start ****ing in
my ear..... ;-)


One day in
1990 I walked into my study, switched on my B&O which had served me
faithfully for a decade, and said, That's a bleeding cold sound, and
instead of starting work started looking for a good pair of Quad II
amps such as I used to drive my first ESL in the far ago and long ago.
The rest is history.


:-)


Not a dissimilar experience to yours. I also have
Arion 5881, an Adonis I built.


My Arion was a 'Tycho' 2 piece 'one off' passive pre/power amp with its own
volume control (Ser. No. 00016, IIRC...)

One-off? Then it must be the show amp that was shown in one of the
magazines a few years ago. I used to know the successive owners of
Arion slightly and I remember thinking when I saw that, What the devil
are these guys up to moving that far upmarket? If it doesn't sell it
will be a big bite out of their business.

- since when a volume pot is a sine
qua non on my power amps. I had a Cambridge Audio P50, Philips GA 212 (?)
with an Ortofon cart and AR 4xa speakers back in the 70's, then got silly
busy (firms, family, misbehaviour etc..) and didn't get back into *listening
to music* until I (early) retired about 7/8/9 years ago.

I think, like a lot of others I have corresponded with recently, I
didn't/don't like the 'modern sound' at all and couldn't get it sorted at
all until I clicked twice - vinyl and valves, in that order....

I even get emails from Americans who are struggling to find the *very same
kit* as that which they had a couple/three decades ago...!!

I feel for them. I have it: Quad II and first-series ESL, such as I
gave to the servants forty years ago because I wanted something with
more oomph for parties. Young people can be very stupid...

(Plus ca change.... :-)

Kids cannot even hear that my ESL63 sound better with my gear (either
tubes or solid state) than an iPod plugged into a computer...

Andre Jute

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

"Andre Jute" wrote


I had a B&O turntable with a little tube amp built in when I was a
student; it was superb.


Well, call me stoopid, but I'd take that in a heartbeat....


(I dreamed of playing the guitar like Andres
Segovia.)


I dreamed of playing like Philip John Lee and actually conversed with him
last year!


I replaced that with ESL and Quad II when I could afford it.


History repeats itself.


"Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it..." (George
Santayana, 1863-1952)

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

"Andre Jute" wrote

My 2A3 SET webpage has garnered no less than 4 'inspirationals' from
email
correspondents so far

An asirant writer who wanted me to give him introductions, a total
stranger, wrote to me once that reading my book "Writing a Thriller"
"was the most seminal experience of my life". I wrote back asking,
"Including your wedding night?" and didn't hear from him again...


:-)

I get a little mention on Steve Creswell's excellent webpage:

http://homepage.mac.com/scress1958/D...toAlbum25.html


(He made a much better job of the amp than I did!! :-)



http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Zuheyr's%20ANkit.JPG

(Only took us **34** days.....!!! :-)))

Nice. There is no point in hurrying a kit. You pay for he pleasure of
building it as much as for the design and the components.


Sure and he has made a splendid job of it. (I got nearly 700 pix of the
entire process - drove me nutz at times!! :-)



My Arion was a 'Tycho' 2 piece 'one off' passive pre/power amp with its
own
volume control (Ser. No. 00016, IIRC...)

One-off? Then it must be the show amp that was shown in one of the
magazines a few years ago. I used to know the successive owners of
Arion slightly and I remember thinking when I saw that, What the devil
are these guys up to moving that far upmarket? If it doesn't sell it
will be a big bite out of their business.


Arion Acoustics were based in Northern Ireland and went bust in 1997. I
spoke to someone in NI who seemed to know a lot (???) about the amp and who
stocked spares for them (??? again...?? ;-) He said the amp was built
specially for a doctor in the Peterborough area; the scallies at the
Peterborough shop told me it 'had been built for a local doctor who got rid
when one of his kids burnt themself on it', so that story kinda held up. (It
used to get hotter'n hell!).

It got to the stage where I could see a resistor alongside one of the valve
bases glowing red when it was running and I didn't fancy to try and fettle
it (early days and a myriad of little bits and pieces in it - 8 sodding
power valves!), so I flogged it to a chap in Aberdeen with a hundred quid
off for him to take it to Phil Ramsey at Bluebell Audio to give it a blow
through - which he did. (Cost the geezer about 120 quid including new
valves, so I wasn't far off). Phil said the amp was a *beaut* but agreed
that it was too tricky for me to fiddle with!


Kids cannot even hear that my ESL63 sound better with my gear (either
tubes or solid state) than an iPod plugged into a computer...


The Music/Computer Industries are *banking* on it....

OK, that's me - a *handcrafted* Spag Bol I've been working on is at the very
epitome of 'readiness' right now, so off I go!! :-)

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

Keith G wrote:
OK, that's me - a *handcrafted* Spag Bol I've been working on is at the very
epitome of 'readiness' right now, so off I go!! :-)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/FOOD.html

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
OK, that's me - a *handcrafted* Spag Bol I've been working on is at the
very
epitome of 'readiness' right now, so off I go!! :-)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/FOOD.html



Excellent pics, excellent dishes.

Just a coupler points:


"nouvelle cuisine anorexics will be queeing up"


....is missing an essential vowel. (Otherwise there is a degree of ambiguity
in the meaning!! ;-)



"steamed carrot (good for night vision)"

:-)


Contrary to popular belief, is not entirely incorrect, asitappens:

"Rumours were circulated that British RAF pilots were fed carrots to help
them see in the dark. The truth was however, the story was invented so the
Germans would not be alerted to the fact that the allies had radar."
"Like all good stories it does have some basis in fact - Carrots are high in
beta-carotene (sometimes shown as ?-Carotene). This is converted into
Vitamin A in the body (also known as retinol). A deficiency of this vitamin
can cause night blindness and in more extreme cases can cause a malfunction
of the tear ducts which can lead to blindness. A single carrot can contain
as much as 750 micrograms of vitamin A and the RNI (recommended nutrient
intake) is 700 and 600 micrograms respectively for an adult man and woman."


"Bolognaise sauce, out of a bottle or homemade I care not, is not permitted
in my house."


My (Spag) Bol sauce is most definitely *not* out of a bottle - the only
'fake thing' in the whole dish is just one Oxo cube, I'll trouble you to
know!!

(At any rate, the Spag Bol would be very plain-tasting without it..!! :-)

Why cheap Chinese amps etc... (very long)
 

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
OK, that's me - a *handcrafted* Spag Bol I've been working on is at the
very
epitome of 'readiness' right now, so off I go!! :-)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/FOOD.html



Excellent pics, excellent dishes.

Just a coupler points:


"nouvelle cuisine anorexics will be queeing up"


...is missing an essential vowel. (Otherwise there is a degree of ambiguity
in the meaning!! ;-)

There are no unintended subtexts in my texts. In fact, I wondered if I
could get away with inserting 'it' before 'up' but decided it would
spoil the excuse of a slipping finger causing a typo.

"steamed carrot (good for night vision)"

:-)


Contrary to popular belief, is not entirely incorrect, asitappens:

"Rumours were circulated that British RAF pilots were fed carrots to help
them see in the dark. The truth was however, the story was invented so the
Germans would not be alerted to the fact that the allies had radar."
"Like all good stories it does have some basis in fact - Carrots are high in
beta-carotene (sometimes shown as ?-Carotene). This is converted into
Vitamin A in the body (also known as retinol). A deficiency of this vitamin
can cause night blindness and in more extreme cases can cause a malfunction
of the tear ducts which can lead to blindness. A single carrot can contain
as much as 750 micrograms of vitamin A and the RNI (recommended nutrient
intake) is 700 and 600 micrograms respectively for an adult man and woman."


"Bolognaise sauce, out of a bottle or homemade I care not, is not permitted
in my house."


My (Spag) Bol sauce is most definitely *not* out of a bottle - the only
'fake thing' in the whole dish is just one Oxo cube, I'll trouble you to
know!!

(At any rate, the Spag Bol would be very plain-tasting without it..!! :-)

I want to know that the mince came from my own butcher, who makes mince
in plain public view from prime cuts. The truth is that, with the
recent successive scares, and almost having given up red meat anyway to
reduce cholesterol, we have now just about given up meat except the
occasional pork chop. Fish and fowl do well.

Andre Jute

Why cheap Chinese amps are not the chopping block for high-end tube amps
 

"Keith G" wrote in
:

Valves have been an expensive rarety and quite out of the reach of
ordinary audio enthusiasts in the UK until fairly recently, all I have
done is explore them (at no small cost to myself, all in all), share
my findings for free and have thrown my door open to more than dozen
different people (half of them 'ukranians') to come and hear them -
also for free, I don't charge admission! (Eau contreau - it has
usually *cost* me money to do it - dishing out freebie records, 5
course lunches etc.)

Noted...a good dinner would go down nicely with my cup of tea :-)

I've heard all but one of Keith's amps and to me they are all better
than anything I could afford for the same price or sound in the UK
shops.

I like the valve sound and without the Chinese effect I wouldn't have
been able to afford a valve amp at all, but having said that I've
currently got a German Dynavox amp and an American Bellari phono stage.
I'm happy with these at the moment but they've certainly started me on
the long path to "greater" things.

Phil