On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:

This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken
them off??

Also check my mp3s when I thought it was fixed.

I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such
problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many
thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise
mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!!

It could be that some develop this fault after some hours playing? Thats
why it sails through auditions. Between my 'fixed' and 'back again'
mp3s,
I had accidentally left it spinning all night (which is probably a good
thing with hindsight).

http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html

A thread in Avforums had two responders saying they had hum. And a
'dealer' suggesting oiling the older debuts?

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388208

Also, being a budget , first timer deck, its more likely to be bought by
people that would put up with it perhaps ???

From someone else an the thread at avforums :

"A question I've wondered myself for many years. I had 3 before I got a
good one, only for that to do it a few months later."



Lordy

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:05:44 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:

This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken
them off??

Also check my mp3s when I thought it was fixed.

I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such
problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many
thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise
mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!!

It could be that some develop this fault after some hours playing? Thats
why it sails through auditions. Between my 'fixed' and 'back again'
mp3s,
I had accidentally left it spinning all night (which is probably a good
thing with hindsight).

http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html

A thread in Avforums had two responders saying they had hum. And a
'dealer' suggesting oiling the older debuts?

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388208

Also, being a budget , first timer deck, its more likely to be bought by
people that would put up with it perhaps ???

From someone else an the thread at avforums :

"A question I've wondered myself for many years. I had 3 before I got a
good one, only for that to do it a few months later."



Lordy

This is sounding worse and worse. Get your money back and go hunting.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:55:35 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
"lordy" wrote in message
...
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote:
I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how
flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you
put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the
bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could
easily have this sort of effect.
Hi,
Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in
mid-air, same noise.

This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken
them off??
Transit screws are off - honest!. Motor is freely suspended on elastic
band thingy. In fact just prior to your post I had removed the top of
the platter and put an old 7" on the lower platter and rested the
stylus on it so I could access the motor whilst turntable was in play
position. With the belt off I could feel the same vibration on the
motor, and when I pressed the motor to be in transit position the noise
was about 10 time louder. (same frequency though!)

You want jpegs

I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such
problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many
thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise
mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So,
unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I
would say the fault lies with you
I can see your POV. From my above experiment it is definitely motor
vibration coming through and not electrical.

- try lifting the earth on the computer
mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and
see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time.....

Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the
*quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue
doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield
if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you
have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or
can you borrow another deck to compare?
I'm gonna try to get them to play it at Richer Sounds. or try one last
exchange..
Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could
'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-)

Lordy



The motor really shouldn't be vibrating at all, certainly tho one in
my Systemdek doesn't. It certainly sounds like the suspension is
making the best it can of a rather bad situation. So the question is
really one of whether all Debut motors are like this, or you have yet
another bad one.


I've got a Debut III and the motor is slightly audible (feint hum/buzz),
but certainly doesn't vibrate/break through as described.

I really wouldn't bother trying to get the Richer guys to listen to it
though - just tell them it is no good. They aren't Hi Fi people so
much as box shifters.


They're generally pretty good at taking stuff back IME. Also, I've found
the staff to be be quite enthusiastic, and hifi enthusiasts to boot.
When I was last in (credit card dangling) I asked about the AV
amplifiers 250-800UKP - they didn't push anything but talked me through
half a dozen, saying the main difference was badge and features.

On the TT I'm not sure of a decent alternative - the Thorens at RS looks
OK but I haven't heard it or seen reviews (and it's a fair bit more). If
you're in/around S.Yorks you're quite welcome to my Debut - boxed/VG, 50UKP.

Rob

"lordy" wrote in message
...
On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:

This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've
taken
them off??

Also check my mp3s when I thought it was fixed.

I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such
problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many
thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise
mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!!

It could be that some develop this fault after some hours playing? Thats
why it sails through auditions. Between my 'fixed' and 'back again'
mp3s,
I had accidentally left it spinning all night (which is probably a good
thing with hindsight).

http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html

A thread in Avforums had two responders saying they had hum. And a
'dealer' suggesting oiling the older debuts?

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388208

Also, being a budget , first timer deck, its more likely to be bought by
people that would put up with it perhaps ???

From someone else an the thread at avforums :

"A question I've wondered myself for many years. I had 3 before I got a
good one, only for that to do it a few months later."



Lordy


Oh, Lordy (PABOC) - I'd rather not think my time with a Debut ends on this
sad note. When I had one I thought it was good fun and that it positively
*sang*! Ludicrous VFM, if not quite the 'Transcription Deck' of choice -
although, having said that, I posted a number of tracks from it here and
no-one pulled them up for motor noise???

Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations
may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks
myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs
with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist
(Direct Drive) or where the motor is almost totally decoupled from the deck
and platter, as in the RPM9 where you could mount the motor unit on the wall
if it was ever going to bother you....??

Having said all that, the noise you are experiencing is not acceptable and
would not be tolerated by any vinylist I know. Incidentally, the only
'Expression' user I know is actually a Sales Assistant in one of the local
shops (upgraded from a secondhand Debut which he used to 'rediscover' vinyl)
and, AFAIK, is very pleased with it, so he can't be experiencing too many
problems! - Strike that! Make it *two* Sales Assistants from the same shop,
if my mate Siny Nigel still has his! (Forgot about that one!)

On 2006-09-03, Rob wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:55:35 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
"lordy" wrote in message
...
On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote:
I've been thinking. I don't know this deck, so I have no idea how
flexible the various bits are, but is there any chance that when you
put it down on a soft, uneven surface, you are actually pushing the
bottom panel up sufficiently to touch the motor chassis? That could
easily have this sort of effect.
Hi,
Just checked with it resting on a firm flat surface, and holding it in
mid-air, same noise.

This positively screams *transit screws* to me - are you sure you've taken
them off??
Transit screws are off - honest!. Motor is freely suspended on elastic
band thingy. In fact just prior to your post I had removed the top of
the platter and put an old 7" on the lower platter and rested the
stylus on it so I could access the motor whilst turntable was in play
position. With the belt off I could feel the same vibration on the
motor, and when I pressed the motor to be in transit position the noise
was about 10 time louder. (same frequency though!)

You want jpegs

I have only had experience of one Debut myself but there were no such
problems with it. As you say, they have been reviewed many times and many
thousands have been sold - I have not seen anything like that noise
mentioned *anywhere* and no-one in his right mind would put up with it!! So,
unless you have been double unlucky (same batch/same shipment/same fault?) I
would say the fault lies with you
I can see your POV. From my above experiment it is definitely motor
vibration coming through and not electrical.

- try lifting the earth on the computer
mains lead (or better yet on an extension lead - **at your own risk**) and
see if it helps. I seem to remember having to do that at one time.....

Planks like the cheaper Debuts and Regas are never going to be the
*quietest* decks and spending your way further up this particular avenue
doesn't promise a fix, if you ask me. Also eBay can be a bit of a minefield
if you don't know what you are doing so I would try and get the deck you
have sorted. Is there somewhere else you can try it - another location or
can you borrow another deck to compare?
I'm gonna try to get them to play it at Richer Sounds. or try one last
exchange..
Where are you located? You could bring it here (St Neots, Cambs) and I could
'it it wiv a nammer for you....!! ;-)

Lordy



The motor really shouldn't be vibrating at all, certainly tho one in
my Systemdek doesn't. It certainly sounds like the suspension is
making the best it can of a rather bad situation. So the question is
really one of whether all Debut motors are like this, or you have yet
another bad one.


I've got a Debut III and the motor is slightly audible (feint hum/buzz),
but certainly doesn't vibrate/break through as described.

Please check out mp3s at http://www.lordy.org.uk/noise.html and compare
to yours.

I really wouldn't bother trying to get the Richer guys to listen to it
though - just tell them it is no good. They aren't Hi Fi people so
much as box shifters.


They're generally pretty good at taking stuff back IME.

Deck returned - no questions at all this time. IMO at least one question
indicates good service

On the TT I'm not sure of a decent alternative - the Thorens at RS looks
OK but I haven't heard it or seen reviews (and it's a fair bit more).

I'm tempted to look at the Goldring GR2.
Any opinions on this.

There is a Sevenoaks HI-Fi across the road from the Richer Sounds
(Bromley). I'm tempted to purchase turntables from bricks 'n' Mortar rather than
online ..


If
you're in/around S.Yorks you're quite welcome to my Debut - boxed/VG, 50UKP.

SE London I'm afraid!


Rob

Lordy

On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations
may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks
myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs
with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist
(Direct Drive)

Are DirectDrive turntables good? I do remeber this was a turntable war
in years gone by.

An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart.
I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a
pure hifi perspective where does it rank?

Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation.

Lordy

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:57:23 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-09-03, Keith G wrote:
Faulty motors aside, Don has it when he says (WTTE) that your expectations
may be too high for the decks you are contemplating. I don't like planks
myself - they are only bloody great transducers at best, better are the TTs
with massy platters and/or where the motor 'effectively' doesn't exist
(Direct Drive)

Are DirectDrive turntables good? I do remeber this was a turntable war
in years gone by.

An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart.
I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a
pure hifi perspective where does it rank?

Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation.

Lordy

The 1200 is a good TT. Particularly you can hide under it in the event
of nuclear war, and you will be safe. If you can find one at a price
that suits you, go for it.

Direct drive is good, so is belt and pulley. The only one to really
avoid is the idler wheel type - very subject to inaccuracies in the
idler, which can be a great source of noise. You did mention a
Goldring earlier, and you need to have a care. They had a design at
one time with a vertical idler wheel that allowed speed adjustment
despite a constant speed motor. These were the rumbliest decks I ever
heard.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On 2006-09-03, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:57:23 GMT, lordy wrote:

An alternative is to get a 2nd hand SL1200 with a good cart.
I know 1200 has certain features more suited for DJing etc but from a
pure hifi perspective where does it rank?

Good 1200's have almost zero depreciation.

Lordy

The 1200 is a good TT. Particularly you can hide under it in the event
of nuclear war, and you will be safe. If you can find one at a price
that suits you, go for it.

Alternatively

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=110025295289

Don Pearce wrote:

Direct drive is good, so is belt and pulley. The only one to really
avoid is the idler wheel type - very subject to inaccuracies in the
idler, which can be a great source of noise. You did mention a
Goldring earlier, and you need to have a care. They had a design at
one time with a vertical idler wheel that allowed speed adjustment
despite a constant speed motor. These were the rumbliest decks I ever
heard.

d


Oh, well, I won't suggest you look out for a Lenco then, I guess you
never heard one in a better plynth then Don?

--
Nick

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 19:23:08 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

Direct drive is good, so is belt and pulley. The only one to really
avoid is the idler wheel type - very subject to inaccuracies in the
idler, which can be a great source of noise. You did mention a
Goldring earlier, and you need to have a care. They had a design at
one time with a vertical idler wheel that allowed speed adjustment
despite a constant speed motor. These were the rumbliest decks I ever
heard.

d


Oh, well, I won't suggest you look out for a Lenco then, I guess you
never heard one in a better plynth then Don?

Only on the Goldring plinth. Was there another? And did it make a lot
of difference.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com