Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message


Arny. I don't know what the situation is in your part of
the world, but here in Scandinavia, where people probably
have more disposable income, and hopefully a higher level
of taste/expectation, tube amps have the majority market
share at the very top end of the market.

Whatever that means.

I am told that this group includes professional people,
doctors, lawyers, and many musicians, so they hardly fit
into your "poorly-educated, well-funded,
obsessive-compulsives" category.

Whatever that means.


Which parts of the two simple statements above are
beyond your level of comprehension, Arny?
I am sorry I cannot write in Afrikaans.

Iain

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



I don't read hi-fi reviews, but listen carefully to what dealers tell
me. They are not trying to sell me anything, but they do have their
finger on the pulse, and know precisely what products are in demand. The
fact that in Stockholm one can buy a Krell at -30% while there is a
longish waiting list for Conrad Johnson, speaks volumes.

You seem to keep assuming pricing and markup practices indicate quality.
Are you not aware that both makers and dealers will have varying practices
in these matters? All part of the ways they try to compete and promote
sales of their products.



I think the word *demand* (not quality per se) is of the essence here....???

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message


Arny. I don't know what the situation is in your part of
the world, but here in Scandinavia, where people probably
have more disposable income, and hopefully a higher level
of taste/expectation, tube amps have the majority market
share at the very top end of the market.

Whatever that means.

I am told that this group includes professional people,
doctors, lawyers, and many musicians, so they hardly fit
into your "poorly-educated, well-funded,
obsessive-compulsives" category.

Whatever that means.


Which parts of the two simple statements above are
beyond your level of comprehension, Arny?
I am sorry I cannot write in Afrikaans.



Oh, he knows well enough what you mean, Iain - he's in *denial* mode.....

PS: The PM6Cs are *mine*...!! ;-)

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Keith G wrote:

That guy is a Flamenco player with an undersized guitar.....

He's not a flamenco player.

It's not a guitar.

Looks like he is a pro musician, though...

http://www.jakeshimabukuro.com/bio.html


I liked this one too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l89JJ...elated&search=

None too smooth yet but he's got the right 'mouth movements'..!! :-)

Issokay, but too much reverb, and not enough pinkie. Yer discerning
guitarist can count the number of fingers on his left hand and make use of
them all (including hooking the thumb over the *top* of the neck). Overall,
it lacks flow, as you say.


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message


Arny. I don't know what the situation is in your part of
the world, but here in Scandinavia, where people
probably have more disposable income, and hopefully a
higher level of taste/expectation, tube amps have the
majority market share at the very top end of the market.

More disposable income than where? Scandanavia seems to have these problems
with energy costs and taxes, not to mention sort of stagnant economies.
Something about Scandanavian government spending hovering around half their
GDP. Ours is closer to 1/3.

Whatever that means.

I am told that this group includes professional people,
doctors, lawyers, and many musicians, so they hardly fit
into your "poorly-educated, well-funded,
obsessive-compulsives" category.

Whatever that means.

IOW. I get told all sorts of things by sales hacks. They have this
propensity to tell people what they want to hear.

Everybody knows there is not a lot of money in telling people what they
don't want to hear about the products they are in the market for.

Which parts of the two simple statements above are
beyond your level of comprehension, Arny?

Iain, your problem isn't comprehension, it is credibility.

I am sorry I cannot write in Afrikaans.

That's OK, I can't read it.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



I don't read hi-fi reviews, but listen carefully to what dealers tell
me. They are not trying to sell me anything, but they do have their
finger on the pulse, and know precisely what products are in demand. The
fact that in Stockholm one can buy a Krell at -30% while there is a
longish waiting list for Conrad Johnson, speaks volumes.

You seem to keep assuming pricing and markup practices indicate quality.
Are you not aware that both makers and dealers will have varying practices
in these matters? All part of the ways they try to compete and promote
sales of their products.


Jim. It is a lot simpler than that. The Krells on offer from stock at -30%
are SS amplifiers. The CJs (at list price with a waiting period) are valve
models. Both have a 40% mark-up. I asked, "why would a dealer be
willing to forgo the larger part of his profit to move the Krells?" The
answer is that this segment of the market is becoming increasingly
dominated by valve equipment.

I am aware that what is happening locally, may not be representative
of the situation elsewhere. But despite the temptation to take home a
high end SS bargain, people are happy to wait for their valve amp:-)

Iain

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article . com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
I am less confident that you will get what you pay for - particularly at
prices well above the average. Unless, of course, you are paying for a
brand name and items with an impressive reputation Jim

I would be very wary of brand names and established products.

Indeed, so would I in general. But the problem is that people do go into
shops with brand names and reputations already in mind that they have
picked up from the twaddle in magazines, etc. I knew more than one dealer
who regarded certain franchises as a license to print money. The items
'sold' with the customers often having no interest in (or opportunity to)
compare them with (often cheaper) alternatives. Given that some of these
products often had a higher price and a higher mark-up percentage, the
dealers did not rush to pursuade customers to listen to cheaper
alternatives.

They may well be less innovative, use standard parts rather than higher
grade alternatives, and in many cases will be "built to a price" because
overheads and advertising may be built in to the margin.

Alas, the above may or may not be so in any individual case, so a
generalisation about the above will be worthless without specific data on
the individual maker and model.

Small companies may be more cutting edge (except in the case of complex
technology) and better value with less overheads e.g. with direct sales
via internet or even ebay shops.

Comment as above. A small company may have more scope for being daring or
innovative. But they may lack the resources and understanding to produce a
good quality product. I can recall more than one example of a 'small new'
audio company that started with a single product that turned out to be a
firecracker despite getting good reviews. Reason being that they made
something they felt 'sounded good' but lacked the resources/understanding
to make them safe, reliable, and with consistent performance. Being
able to make a one-off or a few on a bench that work for a few months
is very different to making items on a regular basis that unknown
customers will be using in all kinds of situations for years.

A small company may also be more nimble at jumping onto the latest
fashionable bandwaggon, and grab sales from it before the fashion
passes. So as with large companies this is all case-by-case, and
generalisations may be useless.

They may be more risky, but the best should offer more for the price.

The snag is in "should". :-)

Particularly in audio where some items seem to have prices wildly higher
than others and people are told they are "very high end" or something
similar as if that justified it. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.

How to know which are the best? This is maybe what you mean by
"reputation" in the form of reviews, but since their products take less
time to come to market they may have had less opportunity to "impress".

In my experience what may 'impress' a reviewer may have little to do
with reality in some cases. But as people in the trade know well,
a good review often has a noticable impact on how people come into
the shops, asking to hear given items. As does a bad review. Up to
the makers and the magazine to time the appearance of a review wrt
the item being on sale.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain
Churches wrote:



I don't read hi-fi reviews, but listen carefully to what dealers tell
me. They are not trying to sell me anything, but they do have their
finger on the pulse, and know precisely what products are in demand.
The fact that in Stockholm one can buy a Krell at -30% while there is
a longish waiting list for Conrad Johnson, speaks volumes.

You seem to keep assuming pricing and markup practices indicate
quality. Are you not aware that both makers and dealers will have
varying practices in these matters? All part of the ways they try to
compete and promote sales of their products.



I think the word *demand* (not quality per se) is of the essence
here....???

Indeed, that may well be so. You may note that the 'demand' for CDs is
larger than for LPs, larger for blockbuster movies than for concerts of
obscure classical music, etc. You may also note that the markup on items
varies according to their sales positioning and company practices.
None of this necessarily has much to do with quality.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

I don't read hi-fi reviews, but listen carefully to what dealers tell
me. They are not trying to sell me anything, but they do have their
finger on the pulse, and know precisely what products are in demand.
The fact that in Stockholm one can buy a Krell at -30% while there is
a longish waiting list for Conrad Johnson, speaks volumes.

You seem to keep assuming pricing and markup practices indicate
quality. Are you not aware that both makers and dealers will have
varying practices in these matters? All part of the ways they try to
compete and promote sales of their products.


Jim. It is a lot simpler than that. The Krells on offer from stock at
-30% are SS amplifiers. The CJs (at list price with a waiting period)
are valve models. Both have a 40% mark-up.

You don't say the actual prices or mark up as cash amounts. However I did
understand the above, but it does not change the points I was making.

I asked, "why would a dealer be willing to forgo the larger part of his
profit to move the Krells?" The answer is that this segment of the
market is becoming increasingly dominated by valve equipment.

IIUC you are saying that you asked why they don't try to sell the Krells
which would put less into their pockets, and that is the answer they gave.
Is that correct?

I am aware that what is happening locally, may not be representative of
the situation elsewhere. But despite the temptation to take home a high
end SS bargain, people are happy to wait for their valve amp:-)

I am sure that some of the people who visit 'high end' dealers do. Although
that may "speak volumes" as you phrased it about the attitudes of those who
go to 'high end' dealers, I can't see that it says a lot about either
Krell, or CJ, or the attitudes of those who find they can buy equipment and
enjoy music without visiting a 'high end' dealer. It seems to me that you
are making a comment about the attitudes of a self-selected grouping which
they perhaps had *before* they went into the shop - thus prompting their
decision to go to such a dealer in the first place.

Indeed, in such cases being told, "You can have A now, but you have
to wait for B as there is *so* much demand for them from people who
decided to wait rather than have A", might have some effect, I
suppose. Can't do any harm to let people think they are getting
something 'rare' and 'exclusive' and 'people think is worth
'waiting for'. More of a trophy to show off to your peers. :-)

I also wonder: Do the customers have to pay when they order? Thus
getting the cash into the dealer's bank account whilst they wait?
If so, it probably looks good to his bank manager and accountant.
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Although perhaps (Brendel) was more plastered on one occasion than the
other. He plays better when plastered, and it did seem that the Liszt
gave the better stereo image, etc. :-) JLS

The music of Abbe Franz Liszt
If loszt would never be miszt.
They all stood aghaszt
As he played oh so faszt
But moszt of the time he was piszt.


When Josef Hofmann's career was in its last stage, when he'd apparently
play brilliantly before the interval then come back on stage tanked up,
a pupil of a friend of Hofmann related going to hear Hofmann play
Chopin and being amazed at his extraordinarily rapid tempo for one of
the more difficult etudes I think it was.
"Why" he asked his teacher, "does he play them so fast?"
"Because he can't play them any faster".

"He has fingers like lightning - they never strike the same place
twice!"