Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Andy Evans wrote:

In my experience tube amp owners are one of the most contented
groups of people with an interest in audio and music. As Peter Lewis
put it, "Happiness is a warm cathode" :-)

Or - "If it ain't glowing, it ain't going"

Is that the best you've got to offer ?

Graham

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference
for an intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of
distortion. Nothing wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as
inherently superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and
nothing else could only be made by somebody with a) very
little knowledge of modern valve circuits and how they
sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated
by tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of
who have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."

In short, he has a lot of respect for people that pay his way.

Proves nothing.

*Denial* is the 'Christian Way', eh Arny? :-)

In truth what one high-end esoteric dealer says does indeed prove nothing.

It reflects the situation in his own location, amongst his own client-base.
I agree this may or may not be representative of the situation in other
regions, or as a whole.

I feel sure that if the dealer had said "tube amp sales are zero"
then both you and Arny would have both responded gleefully,
"There, you see! That proves it!"

Iain

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently: quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated by tube
amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of who have speakers at
10k a pair) are highly discerning."

Was "top" a subjective judgement, or a comment on the prices and
his markup profits for "very high end" equipment? :-)

I think the mark-up is probably the same at all levels. one probably has to
give a better, more personal service (home demonstrations etc) at the
higher end of the market.


Afraid I don't have any 10k speakers. Do two pairs of ESLs count?[1]

Why not? :-)


Or would it be silly of me to confuse the price of the equipment with the
levels of musical enjoyment or 'discernment' of the listener?... ;-

Probably not. You get what you pay for. But as with most things,
beyond a certain point, improvement is subject to the law of diminishing
returns.

[1] Come to think of it, does a pair of ESL988's register as '10k'
in whatever monetary units you had in mind?

Well, living in an EMU country, the Euro comes naturally to me.
But given the silly prices in the UK, I suppose GBP 10k would be OK:-)


Would I be more discerning
if I emigrated to Zimbabwe? 8-]

No boss. Aah ha been there. Don't rekommend dat aat aal.

... or did you mean 10k Ohms, and
speakers which allow the user to avoid an output transformer on the
valve amp? ;-

No need to go to such lengths, you can drive a pair of 4 Ohm speakers
with an OTL.

Iain

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



I don't read hi-fi reviews, but listen carefully to what dealers tell
me. They are not trying to sell me anything, but they do have their
finger on the pulse, and know precisely what products are in demand. The
fact that in Stockholm one can buy a Krell at -30% while there is a
longish waiting list for Conrad Johnson, speaks volumes.

You seem to keep assuming pricing and markup practices indicate quality.
Are you not aware that both makers and dealers will have varying practices
in these matters? All part of the ways they try to compete and promote
sales of their products.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does
not need to be wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Arny. Why do you choose to call people who use/enjoy tube
amps "bigots" Is this in keeping with your new-born
Christian beliefs?

Just calling things what I see them to be. I guess Iain would prefer
that
I lie or obfuscate.


It hasn't bothered you up to now, Arny, so why change? :-)

In my experience tube amp owners are one of the most contented
groups of people with an interest in audio and music.
As Peter Lewis put it, "Happiness is a warm cathode" :-)

Maybe they're just easily contented ?

No Graham. Probably quite the reverse. The tube audio people that
I know seem to spend a long time looking for that last few percent in
the musical performance. That's why there is so much interest in
things like SET and open baffle speakers, horns etc.

But, if you don't care about the ability to differentiate between an
oboe and a cor Anglais then it doesn't really matter, does it?

I have made my choice, a homebrew EL34 PPP amp.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...em/C50_002.jpg


I am happy to leave you to make yours.

Best regards
Iain

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain
Churches wrote:


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently: quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated by tube
amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of who have speakers at
10k a pair) are highly discerning."

Was "top" a subjective judgement, or a comment on the prices and his
markup profits for "very high end" equipment? :-)

I think the mark-up is probably the same at all levels.

I doubt that. Firstly, my experience is that the mark-up varies from one
maker's products to another, and the dealers in most countries will tweak
this as they see fit. Secondly because it will tend to be assessed as a
percentage of the price. This means a "very high end" price will generally
put more cash into the dealer's pocket than something at budget price. One
of the reasons dealers like to sell high end if they can gather potential
customers from a large enough area to be able to do so sucessfully.

one probably has to give a better, more personal service (home
demonstrations etc) at the higher end of the market.

Well, my experience may be out-of-date. However when I knew various dealers
via the biz, they were generally as happy to give good support service to
people who bought modest kit as the those who bought expensive kit. The
reason being that there were more of them, and it helped establish a decent
reputation. Also because they tended to want their customers to be happy.

OK, I knew a few sharks as well. These mainly focused on high price items
as I recall.

There were some dealers I would have regarded as being excellent and
reliable. But there were others where I would be inclined to count my
fingers after shaking hands with them. And who showed in practice that they
could not hear what they enthused about, as well as talking technobabble to
try and impress customers.

Or would it be silly of me to confuse the price of the equipment with
the levels of musical enjoyment or 'discernment' of the listener?...
;-

Probably not. You get what you pay for.

Do you? Always? :-) I know that it is likely that you will pay for what
you get. However I am less confident that you will get what you pay for -
particularly at prices well above the average. Unless, of course, you are
paying for a brand name and items with an impressive reputation. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Iain Churches wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote
"Iain Churches" wrote
"Andy Evans" wrote

What they are confusing this with is their preference
for an intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of
distortion. Nothing wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as
inherently superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and
nothing else could only be made by somebody with a) very
little knowledge of modern valve circuits and how they
sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated
by tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of
who have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."

In short, he has a lot of respect for people that pay his way.

Proves nothing.

*Denial* is the 'Christian Way', eh Arny? :-)

In truth what one high-end esoteric dealer says does indeed prove nothing.

It reflects the situation in his own location, amongst his own client-base.
I agree this may or may not be representative of the situation in other
regions, or as a whole.

I feel sure that if the dealer had said "tube amp sales are zero"
then both you and Arny would have both responded gleefully,
"There, you see! That proves it!"

It really wouldn't bother me quite frankly.

Graham

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"If it ain't glowing, it ain't going"

Is that the best you've got to offer ? Graham

The best I have to offer is a preamp kit with DHTs, filament supply,
stepped attenuator, case and power supply. Currently six people I know
are building preamps with DHTs as a result of hearing the difference in
their systems.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Andy Evans wrote:

"If it ain't glowing, it ain't going"

Is that the best you've got to offer ? Graham

The best I have to offer is a preamp kit with DHTs, filament supply,
stepped attenuator, case and power supply. Currently six people I know
are building preamps with DHTs as a result of hearing the difference in
their systems.

So do tell me about this 'difference'.

Even better, what's the reason for it ?

Graham

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
"If it ain't glowing, it ain't going"

Is that the best you've got to offer ? Graham

The best I have to offer is a preamp kit with DHTs, filament supply,
stepped attenuator, case and power supply. Currently six people I know
are building preamps with DHTs as a result of hearing the difference in
their systems.


And two more coming up:-)
Iain