Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore"
wrote
in message

Keith G wrote:

does, he's on it all the time. I have a pair of
great-sounding amps that are about 40 years old and the
2A3 SET I built a year or two back is based on a 1929
design...!!

Have you ever tried say a well-designed mosfet amp for
comparison ?

A well-designed mosfet amp is going to have loop feedback and a
resonably-low output impedance. The "Keithe G" market is high-output-Z amps
that sound different with every different speaker they hook up, aside from
the differences in the speakers themselves.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore"
wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote
in
message
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:42:49 +0100, Eeyore

wrote:

There is precious litle 'modern' about any valve
circuit. I learnt on them btw.

I've no doubt you know valves from ( ?50s, 60s?,
70s?), but you'd be very surprised at how much things
have changed.

There has been no change whatever. Tube technology
peaked in the early 50s.

Not the function of the
triode itself, which is well known, but the support
circuitry is now quite complex - cascode active loads,
constant current sinks etc. - a whole cuisine of
modern ss devices and traditional stuff like glow
tubes. It really is "nouvelle cuisine" if you pardon
the expression. We're not talking Mullard circuits
with EF86s and ECC83s any more.

Indeed, toobists now use semiconductors to help cure
the inherent flaws of thermionic devices.


Well, make your mind up! Either valve circuits have
changed or they haven't.

No, the proper term for the use of semiconductors to
help cure some of the inherent flaws of terminonic
devices is "hybrid". There has been some advance in the
design of hybrid circuits since the 1950s.

Nor is the mixed use of semiconductors and thermionics in
electronic equipment especially new either !

Agreed. A fair amount of the military equipment I worked on in the late 60s
was hybrid. Some was designed that way from scratch, and some was due to the
use of SS replacements for tubes. For example our 250-300 VDC power supplies
were designed to use 300Bs as power regulators, but they were mostly
replaced with SS modules that plugged into the same sockets.

The impact of SS electronics on this gear was extreme. The tubed equipment
tracked one target, weighed about 4 tons, used about 25 KW of 400 Hz 3
phase, and filled a dedicated trailer that barely fit under freeway bridges.
Its current SS replacment sits on the bed of a HUMV, tracks 100's of targets
concurrently, has about 5 times the range, and runs off a generator that a
couple of guys can heft around.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference
for an intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of
distortion. Nothing wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as
inherently superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and
nothing else could only be made by somebody with a) very
little knowledge of modern valve circuits and how they
sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated
by tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of
who have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."

In short, he has a lot of respect for people that pay his way.

Proves nothing.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a
well-known high end audio show, listening to bunches and
bunches of this crap. Did I say that it was crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps or 70s transistor equipment?

Actually, new production valve amps.

Or are you saying there were a *lot* of new valve amps
there?

Yes.

If there were it would tell us something - your
not liking them means nothing to me, almost certainly
nothing to the manufacturers or even the rest of the
world probably....?? ;-)

Fact is the matter is that almost nobody likes this crap - just a few
poorly-educated, well-funded, obsessive-compulsives.



Denial of this magnitude is almost impressive, but your theories lose out to
the *facts* reported by Iain, I'm sorry to say....

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote


snip ********


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does
not need to be wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you
come on here and tell me how many times it clipped....

Just trying to explain why it sounded so bad.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Eeyore"
wrote
in message
...


Keith G wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote

snip ********

What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that
does not need to be wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you
come on here and tell
me how many times it clipped....

No he didn't.



Yes he did, often - before your time....


Just trying to explain why it sounded bad. Keith had his training wheels on
and eventually he learned how to make a fairly competent transcription of
vinyl.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference
for an intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of
distortion. Nothing wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as
inherently superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and
nothing else could only be made by somebody with a) very
little knowledge of modern valve circuits and how they
sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated
by tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of
who have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."

In short, he has a lot of respect for people that pay his way.

Proves nothing.



*Denial* is the 'Christian Way', eh Arny? :-)

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com
All it has to do is sound as *realistic* as possible for
me - that's
*my* realistic, not anyone else's and it definitely helps
if I can hear
*all* of the voices, *all* of the words (where
applicable) and *all* of the instruments. Keith.

Keith, you're definitely heading for one of my small-DHT
preamps - I can give you all the kit bits cheap and you
can assemble it. Don't ask me why, but these small DHTs
have a clarity I don't find in any other amplification
stage. You have a little treat in store. Andy

DHT = Directly-Heated Triodes. They must be a treat to bias properly given
that the cathode isn't all at the same potential.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does
not need to be wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Arny. Why do you choose to call people who use/enjoy tube
amps "bigots" Is this in keeping with your new-born
Christian beliefs?

Just calling things what I see them to be. I guess Iain would prefer that I
lie or obfuscate.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Eeyore"
wrote
in message
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote
in
message
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:42:49 +0100, Eeyore

wrote:

There is precious litle 'modern' about any valve
circuit. I learnt on them btw.

I've no doubt you know valves from ( ?50s, 60s?,
70s?), but you'd be very surprised at how much things
have changed.

There has been no change whatever. Tube technology
peaked in the early 50s.

Not the function of the
triode itself, which is well known, but the support
circuitry is now quite complex - cascode active loads,
constant current sinks etc. - a whole cuisine of
modern ss devices and traditional stuff like glow
tubes. It really is "nouvelle cuisine" if you pardon
the expression. We're not talking Mullard circuits
with EF86s and ECC83s any more.

Indeed, toobists now use semiconductors to help cure
the inherent flaws of thermionic devices.


Well, make your mind up! Either valve circuits have
changed or they haven't.

No, the proper term for the use of semiconductors to
help cure some of the inherent flaws of terminonic
devices is "hybrid". There has been some advance in the
design of hybrid circuits since the 1950s.

Nor is the mixed use of semiconductors and thermionics in
electronic equipment especially new either !

Agreed. A fair amount of the military equipment I worked on in the late
60s was hybrid. Some was designed that way from scratch, and some was due
to the use of SS replacements for tubes. For example our 250-300 VDC power
supplies were designed to use 300Bs as power regulators, but they were
mostly replaced with SS modules that plugged into the same sockets.

The impact of SS electronics on this gear was extreme. The tubed equipment
tracked one target, weighed about 4 tons, used about 25 KW of 400 Hz 3
phase, and filled a dedicated trailer that barely fit under freeway
bridges. Its current SS replacment sits on the bed of a HUMV, tracks 100's
of targets concurrently, has about 5 times the range, and runs off a
generator that a couple of guys can heft around.



And all this relates to what, precisely....??