The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote


Hi APR. I've never questioned Keith's perceptions, and of course he is
welcome to them. The issue under examination here was whether full
range drivers reproduce the top and bottom octaves fully - the
contention is that they on't, and Keith's postings bore out that
contention. Since they were posted Dave Plowman has pointed out that
the mic Keith was using has serious deficiencies in these areas
itself. That is where we are currently - waiting for the next chapter.


OK, let's pull this back to reality a bit - when I post trax recorded with
the lapel mic they are not really intended for *measurements*, they are only
an indication of what I hear and are posted to counter the common dismissing
of FR drivers as having no top or bottom in the *hope* that some of the
qualities shine through. (Let's face it, by the time they have been
downloaded and listened to by anyone here, they've been round the block a
few times!! ;-)

If there were no bass/treble as is often implied, I would not entertain FR
speakers for a moment longer than it took to haul them back down to the
garage. My track record with drivers in both the Jericho and (In)Fidelio
cabinets so far is as follows:

Much-vaunted Fostex FE206E - out, gone and somewhere in France now. No bass
whatsoever and never will have, which made me think that the far more
popular Fostex drivers have dragged stuff like Lowther down in a blanket
condemnation of all FR units...?? (That said, in the right cabinet, the
smaller Fostex are quite superb and excellent VFM!)

Much-vaunted (and not cheap) Visaton B200 - also out and back in the box.
Nice bass but they have no top end and need supertweets which (if you stick
with Visaton) are not trivial at over a wunnah apiece:

http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_zu..._horn/410.html


Much reviled Lowther EX3s - *Kaboom*!! At last, the real thing!! Bags of
everything, can make 'em buzz if you push them too hard. Stupendous
clarity/speed with plenty of top *and* bottom end. Can sound ****e XXXX
XXXXXXXXXX XXXXX*, otherwise the best all-round sound I have ever heard to
date and one I will settle with for the forseeable.

Much reviled (and outdated?) Lowther PM6Cs - BNIB (unused), these drivers
are a little bit more 'horny' and hard -edged atm than the EX3s but are
still a very beguiling sound and very crisp indeed. A little stark on SS but
I have just been listening to them for the last hour or more thinking they
were the EX3s....!! (Easily switchable, I forgot they were in!)

As to 'measurements' - currently, the plan is for Nick G to swing by here on
Friday and we'll give 'em a poke with his measuring mic....

Tune in to this station later in the week, for the next exciting
instalment.....!! :-)


* Not saying - don't want any *preconceptions* do we..??? :-)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:51:08 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Otherwise, what does this look like:

http://www.bluearan.co.uk/menu/index.php?id=BEHMIC200


No, go for the UB802, not that - what you are looking at is an effects
box; maybe fun for a few minutes, but ultimately unsatisfying.


OK, noted - thanks!


and which of these (if any):

http://www.bluearan.co.uk/menu/index...ew=Microphones

???


Any of those (apart from the couple at the top) would probably do.


OK - thanks again!


Buy
two of course - you need to be able to record stereo.


Do I though - for recording piano??

What is mystifying me is that if I play that Tone Sweep (20Hz - 20kHz) I can
hear it from the very start and all the way up to a few seconds from the
end! When I was playing with a Tone Generator a while back I lost it at
about 14.5 kHz. Am I being bamboozled...??

Also, bearing in mind that someone at the very epicentre of speaker build
said not, can a cabinet *enhance* a drivers range - IOW, I seem to be
hearing 20 Hz on drivers that only claim 30 Hz at the deep end...??

Getting more and more confused now.....

The shite wot is writ here...
 

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:55:42 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

two of course - you need to be able to record stereo.


Do I though - for recording piano??

Absolutely. A piano has size. More important, it's in a room. Like
any other instrument it sounds horrible in the middle of a field. Or
in a dead room.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
However, you seem to be keen on a valve mic so I'll leave any advice to
others. I was glad to see the end of them.


Nevertheless, I would still be interested in your recommendations.

I'm afraid I'm really not well up on what's around mic wise at the - shall
we say - semi pro end of the market.

If I were to have just one mic which would do most things other than hand
held I'd go for a Neumann U87 or AKG C414. Both have been around for yonks
and are readily available secondhand.

The valve mic idea is *me* - I don't have to worry too much about
*fidelity* as well you know, I seek only the most pleasant sound I can
get and if it makes the piano recording sound particularly good it
would be a bonus. But if you have a better idea (for less money,
presumably) I'd be interested to hear it...??

My main memory of valve mics is just how noisy they were. Perhaps things
have improved - although I doubt it.

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
However, you seem to be keen on a valve mic so I'll leave any advice to
others. I was glad to see the end of them.


Nevertheless, I would still be interested in your recommendations.

I'm afraid I'm really not well up on what's around mic wise at the - shall
we say - semi pro end of the market.

If I were to have just one mic which would do most things other than hand
held I'd go for a Neumann U87 or AKG C414. Both have been around for yonks
and are readily available secondhand.


Streuth! I've just Googled them quickly and seen some distinctly *non
hobbyist* prices....!!

Thanks anyway - I've noted them down....!!



The valve mic idea is *me* - I don't have to worry too much about
*fidelity* as well you know, I seek only the most pleasant sound I can
get and if it makes the piano recording sound particularly good it
would be a bonus. But if you have a better idea (for less money,
presumably) I'd be interested to hear it...??

My main memory of valve mics is just how noisy they were. Perhaps things
have improved - although I doubt it.


Probably not, but at only 179 UKP that Russian jobbie is a temptation - no
rush, no need yet and no budget right now...!! :-)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

Can't agree with much of that - none of my FR units are rated at less than 20K at the top end...

That's as maybe, but at HF, the sound will beam like ****.

The polar response plot will have a very narrow lobe at
zero degrees from the axis. To get decent treble, you're gonna
need to aim the axis at your ears with a red laser dot! Off axis, you're
not gonna get a decent response at many frequencies. At some positions,
at some frequencies, you'll get some kinda decent response, but at other
frequencies at the same position, you'll get a terrible response.

Tweeters are small partly to reduce this problem. Partly.

Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie

The shite wot is writ here...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
If I were to have just one mic which would do most things other than
hand held I'd go for a Neumann U87 or AKG C414. Both have been around
for yonks and are readily available secondhand.


Streuth! I've just Googled them quickly and seen some distinctly *non
hobbyist* prices....!!

You'll get a slightly kicked but perfect electronically 414 for about 250
quid, and it won't lose any money unlike a new Russian or Chinese cheapy.
U87 - nearer 400.

Thanks anyway - I've noted them down....!!

Small capsule fixed DP condensers tend to be cheaper. Something like a
Neumann KM 84 was used by the thousand in broadcasting and often end up on
Ebay. Then there's the AKG C451 - perhaps the most used mic ever in TV,
as it was available with so many capsules and extension tubes. Recently
re-introduced, IIRC. So it's not just in the Hi-Fi field that retro rules.

The 451 again often comes up on Ebay for around 100 quid. They still sound
pretty good if a little bright although you have to be careful not to
overload them. However, screw in pads are available. I still use them
quite a bit where a neat 'in shot' mic is needed. The larger U87, etc, can
be visually unattractive in some situations.

Like with all things, these mics need a good power supply to perform
properly. For occasional use, 45 volts worth of PP3s will be satisfactory.
But a tad expensive for if you forget to switch off when not used. I'd
expect about 100-150 hours running time from such a setup.

--
*Frankly, scallop, I don't give a clam

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The shite wot is writ here...
 

Keith G wrote:

It's Swim's - she's had it from Day 1 and won't part with it!

I'm not surprised. :-)


Utterly reliable, will show you 145 on the clock, goes lethal (front
end lifts/goes light) at 110.

Can't say I've heard that from anyone on the owner's club web site - I'll
ask around, though. It may be a rev1 thing - the first version had higher
suspension, which I think was changed around 1991.


If you ever have to take it into a
garage for problems around the door handle area (window controls,
central locking &c.) tell them there's a 'screw' in it somewhere -
it's the only Toyota model with one at that location and they'll bust
it trying to pull it out as all the others only 'click' in..!!

I'll bear that in mind, for my own reference as much as anything (I'm quite
happy with not paying someone to do door handle stuff for me :).


Enjoy! ;-)

Damn tootin'. :-)


And later on, the piper pay.....?? ;-)
Dosie doe, swing and sway....

Keep taking the tablets. ;-)


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
I eat my peas with honey, I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny, but it keeps them on the knife.
(Spike Milligan)

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
Can't agree with much of that - none of my FR units are rated at less
than 20K at the top end...

That's as maybe, but at HF, the sound will beam like ****.

The polar response plot will have a very narrow lobe at
zero degrees from the axis. To get decent treble, you're gonna
need to aim the axis at your ears with a red laser dot! Off axis, you're
not gonna get a decent response at many frequencies. At some positions,
at some frequencies, you'll get some kinda decent response, but at other
frequencies at the same position, you'll get a terrible response.

Tweeters are small partly to reduce this problem. Partly.

Still, if the sound suits you.... I'm a treble fiend myself, though.



Seems it suits more than just me, Martin - Lowther have been making the PM6
speakers for over 50 years now....

The shite wot is writ here...
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

It's Swim's - she's had it from Day 1 and won't part with it!

I'm not surprised. :-)


Utterly reliable, will show you 145 on the clock, goes lethal (front
end lifts/goes light) at 110.

Can't say I've heard that from anyone on the owner's club web site - I'll
ask around, though. It may be a rev1 thing - the first version had higher
suspension, which I think was changed around 1991.


OK.

I'll bear that in mind, for my own reference as much as anything (I'm
quite
happy with not paying someone to do door handle stuff for me :).


Enjoy! ;-)

Damn tootin'. :-)


:-)



And later on, the piper pay.....?? ;-)
Dosie doe, swing and sway....

Keep taking the tablets. ;-)



Buffy Saint Marie - can't remember the name of the track offhand....