Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Andre Jute wrote:

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."
conduction "under any signal condition".

What a load of pedantic crap. How about simply specifying that a Class A
amplification stage will never cease to conduct when operated within it's
designed operating range (presuming that it was properly designed).

As for injunears, having passed some written exam at some point in life
(usually before any useful work was done) is no a guarantee of anything.
I've worked with everything from PHDs to people without a qualification to
their name, and, apart from a few of the PHDs, the ratio of the clever to
the idiots has been roughly the same regardless of qualification.

Keith

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."

The three "engineers" in question are Graham "Poopie" Stevenson, Don
"Bluster" Pearce and Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger. Apparently they
are perfectly unable to understand, after they have been told so a
handful of times already, that "any signal condition" includes
overdrive which turns even the correct part of the definition into
absurd nonsense.

Here's the sequence of their errors, with a small sample of their
abuse liberally spattered over the newsgroups:

First Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience, pointed out that Poopie
Stevenson made a silly error:

Poopie's absurd redefinition of Class A as
a Class in which "the output device(s)never cease conducting *under
any signal condition*," (emphasis added). It's ludicrous.

Then Poopie Stevenson confirmed:
It's actually the only accurate definition.

And Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger agreed without any qualification:
Agreed.

Then Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience even with fools, pointed
out that the two parts of redefinition are mutually exclusive:
Any amp can be driven out of class by excessive signal voltage.

Which Poopie tried to blow away with poor-quality smoke:
Overdriving to cut-off is merely gross abuse and a complete red herring /
irrelevance.

Fully supported of course by his yes-man, Arny "I spoke in error"
Krueger:
Agreed. Jute seems to be addicted to excluded-middle arguments. Kick out
those and the straw men, and he's hardly have anything to say. ;-)

Now Don Pearce tries to bluster the argument out with an obvious lie:
Can you overdrive a class A amp to cutoff? In my experience what
happens when you overdrive a class A amp is that one device saturates,
and the other sticks with its normal bias condition. There is no
circumstance in which I have ever managed to put a class A amplifier
output device into cutoff.

d

Of course, it is irrelevant (perhaps even commendable) that Don Pearce
lives such a dull and unadventurous life that he has never overdriven
a Class A amp; perhaps he doesn't own a Class A amp; on the evidence
in this thread he doesn't even know what a Class A amp is. What
matters is that Don Pearce, like Arny Krueger, supports Poopie
Stevenson's absurd definition of Class A operation as 360 degrees of
conduction "under any signal condition".

How can any properly educated engineer not know that the signal in an
amplifier class is by necessity limited?

It is difficult not to conclude that these three clowns, Stevenson,
Krueger and Pearce, are either not engineers, or were not properly
educated, or are too old and fat and slack to remember the basics they
were taught.

I have on previous occasions demonstrated what Poopie Stevenson's
claim of a University of London degree actually means: not very much,
as he got his degree from a jumped-up polytechnic (a British version
of the soldering schools Ludwig is addicted to) forced onto UL by a
socialist government trying to save a buck. Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard
of. Who knows where Pearce was so misshapen as to believe that it
doesn't matter how much signal voltage you use in an amplifier?

Poopie Stevenson, Bluster Pearce and Erroneous Krueger are, in
engineering terms, ignorant and abusive clowns "under any signal
condition".

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard of.

Just goes to show that Jute is so stupid and arrogant that he is willing to
go on record agreeing with the sockpuppet known as George Middius. AFAIK,
the lie that I ever attended a community college is a lie that was
originated on Usenet by the Middiot.

I graduated from Oakland University which has never been a community
college. It is the only degree-granting institution of higher education that
I've ever attended. True, there is an educational resource named Oakland
Community College, but it is a completely different institution.

The rest of Jute's post is about as truthful as this false claim.

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

The Krooborg comes down to earth.

Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard of.

Just goes to show that Jute is so stupid and arrogant that he is willing to
go on record agreeing with the sockpuppet known as George Middius. AFAIK,
the lie that I ever attended a community college is a lie

Thanks Mr. **** for, admitting Turdborg that you were not educated at
all ****-for-Brains.

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Hi RATs!

I think, therefore, I error. Humans learn whatever they can to allow
themselves to eat and sleep and smile and such.

Music (recordings, from my hot rodded noise toys) eases the pain, and,
suppresses my broken brain ... even better :)

Those of us with adequate meds and no remaining ability to fight the
"Glorious and Grande Battles for Income" are allowed to just putter
and listen. I did more puttering, in better days ;)

Education is a fine pose by fine posers in institutions of learning.

Unschooled children, dull and clever, the world over, learn as much,
or more, every day, than our silly institutions teach those, dull and
clever, cursed by birth to attend to some fuddy duddy mouthing
memorized banalities about organized and catalogued nonsense. If any
of you ear heads have never seen "Auntie Mame", the Rosalind Russel
version, it is a wonderful sendup of Big Buck Education in Gotham.

I have been graced by some fine teachers. But those few brave souls
can not carry the burden of all the dead meat stumbling around the
world campuses. Many attend, but few get excited enough to go after
more than a piece of parchment. None become immortal or really
educated, but, some have more fun than others.

An education is learning to find answers and figure out new questions.
Some get it, some can't. All try their best, except the morbidly silly
who think America's "No Child Left Behind" is anything more than
holding the clever back to make the dull 'feel' normal. Those kind of
manufactured emotions do no one any favors. No matter how well the
folly is documented. Nor how often ;)

All of us seek to understand things, in any manner which gives us a
sense of understanding. We may be called polymaths, or idiots, but,
those who try to memorize the answers are better at name calling than
anything useful to their brethren.

None are "poorly educated", we are all incredibly well educated, given
the breadth of the Universe and the insanity of our fellows. No human
speaks a language completely shared with any other, ever. Some may
share more, or less, but that is just empty statistics.

I look for answers where I find puzzles. Some are not thusly
motivated. They look to preach their answers where no one sees any
puzzle. Both have friends and enemies, whatever that may mean ;)

It is hopeless. But, passes the time.

Tubes are not the answer, they are just another way to find some joy
in this war zone ... combat is popular, but, optional. Death be not
proud, nor killing fair, but, we all will die ... Just, after this
tune, OK?

Happy Ears!
Al

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

IN RESPONSE TO THIS

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."

The three "engineers" in question are Graham "Poopie" Stevenson, Don
"Bluster" Pearce and Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger. Apparently they
are perfectly unable to understand, after they have been told so a
handful of times already, that "any signal condition" includes
overdrive which turns even the correct part of the definition into
absurd nonsense.

Here's the sequence of their errors, with a small sample of their
abuse liberally spattered over the newsgroups:

First Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience, pointed out that Poopie
Stevenson made a silly error:

Poopie's absurd redefinition of Class A as
a Class in which "the output device(s)never cease conducting *under
any signal condition*," (emphasis added). It's ludicrous.

Then Poopie Stevenson confirmed:
It's actually the only accurate definition.

And Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger agreed without any qualification:
Agreed.

Then Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience even with fools, pointed
out that the two parts of redefinition are mutually exclusive:
Any amp can be driven out of class by excessive signal voltage.

Which Poopie tried to blow away with poor-quality smoke:
Overdriving to cut-off is merely gross abuse and a complete red herring /
irrelevance.

Fully supported of course by his yes-man, Arny "I spoke in error"
Krueger:
Agreed. Jute seems to be addicted to excluded-middle arguments. Kick out
those and the straw men, and he's hardly have anything to say. ;-)

Now Don Pearce tries to bluster the argument out with an obvious lie:
Can you overdrive a class A amp to cutoff? In my experience what
happens when you overdrive a class A amp is that one device saturates,
and the other sticks with its normal bias condition. There is no
circumstance in which I have ever managed to put a class A amplifier
output device into cutoff.

d

Of course, it is irrelevant (perhaps even commendable) that Don Pearce
lives such a dull and unadventurous life that he has never overdriven
a Class A amp; perhaps he doesn't own a Class A amp; on the evidence
in this thread he doesn't even know what a Class A amp is. What
matters is that Don Pearce, like Arny Krueger, supports Poopie
Stevenson's absurd definition of Class A operation as 360 degrees of
conduction "under any signal condition".

How can any properly educated engineer not know that the signal in an
amplifier class is by necessity limited?

It is difficult not to conclude that these three clowns, Stevenson,
Krueger and Pearce, are either not engineers, or were not properly
educated, or are too old and fat and slack to remember the basics they
were taught.

I have on previous occasions demonstrated what Poopie Stevenson's
claim of a University of London degree actually means: not very much,
as he got his degree from a jumped-up polytechnic (a British version
of the soldering schools Ludwig is addicted to) forced onto UL by a
socialist government trying to save a buck. Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard
of. Who knows where Pearce was so misshapen as to believe that it
doesn't matter how much signal voltage you use in an amplifier?

Poopie Stevenson, Bluster Pearce and Erroneous Krueger are, in
engineering terms, ignorant and abusive clowns "under any signal
condition".

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE REASONE INDICTMENT, ERRONEOUS KRUEGER TELLS
US THIS:

On Oct 25, 10:31 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

oups.com...

Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard of.

Just goes to show that Jute is so stupid and arrogant that he is willing to
go on record agreeing with the sockpuppet known as George Middius. AFAIK,
the lie that I ever attended a community college is a lie that was
originated on Usenet by the Middiot.

You're tight, Krueger, I merely reported what others said about you.

I graduated from Oakland University

Never heard of that one either. The rest of your post is poor-quality
smoke to avoid the main issue:

So, Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger, where is your excuse for claiming
that Class A must hold true "under any condition of signal"?

which has never been a community
college. It is the only degree-granting institution of higher education that
I've ever attended. True, there is an educational resource named Oakland
Community College, but it is a completely different institution.

The rest of Jute's post is about as truthful as this false claim.

Do you, Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger, deny that you agreed with
Poopie Stevenson that Class A must hold true "under any condition of
signal"?

Unsigned out of contempt for a liar and a fool

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

On Oct 26, 12:29 am, Andre Jute wrote:
IN RESPONSE TO THIS

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."

The three "engineers" in question are Graham "Poopie" Stevenson, Don
"Bluster" Pearce and Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger. Apparently they
are perfectly unable to understand, after they have been told so a
handful of times already, that "any signal condition" includes
overdrive which turns even the correct part of the definition into
absurd nonsense.

Here's the sequence of their errors, with a small sample of their
abuse liberally spattered over the newsgroups:

First Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience, pointed out that Poopie
Stevenson made a silly error:

Poopie's absurd redefinition of Class A as
a Class in which "the output device(s)never cease conducting *under
any signal condition*," (emphasis added). It's ludicrous.

Then Poopie Stevenson confirmed:

It's actually the only accurate definition.

And Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger agreed without any qualification:

Agreed.

Then Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience even with fools, pointed
out that the two parts of redefinition are mutually exclusive:

Any amp can be driven out of class by excessive signal voltage.

Which Poopie tried to blow away with poor-quality smoke:

Overdriving to cut-off is merely gross abuse and a complete red herring /
irrelevance.

Fully supported of course by his yes-man, Arny "I spoke in error"
Krueger:

Agreed. Jute seems to be addicted to excluded-middle arguments. Kick out
those and the straw men, and he's hardly have anything to say. ;-)

Now Don Pearce tries to bluster the argument out with an obvious lie:

Can you overdrive a class A amp to cutoff? In my experience what
happens when you overdrive a class A amp is that one device saturates,
and the other sticks with its normal bias condition. There is no
circumstance in which I have ever managed to put a class A amplifier
output device into cutoff.

d

Of course, it is irrelevant (perhaps even commendable) that Don Pearce
lives such a dull and unadventurous life that he has never overdriven
a Class A amp; perhaps he doesn't own a Class A amp; on the evidence
in this thread he doesn't even know what a Class A amp is. What
matters is that Don Pearce, like Arny Krueger, supports Poopie
Stevenson's absurd definition of Class A operation as 360 degrees of
conduction "under any signal condition".

How can any properly educated engineer not know that the signal in an
amplifier class is by necessity limited?

It is difficult not to conclude that these three clowns, Stevenson,
Krueger and Pearce, are either not engineers, or were not properly
educated, or are too old and fat and slack to remember the basics they
were taught.

I have on previous occasions demonstrated what Poopie Stevenson's
claim of a University of London degree actually means: not very much,
as he got his degree from a jumped-up polytechnic (a British version
of the soldering schools Ludwig is addicted to) forced onto UL by a
socialist government trying to save a buck. Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard
of. Who knows where Pearce was so misshapen as to believe that it
doesn't matter how much signal voltage you use in an amplifier?

Poopie Stevenson, Bluster Pearce and Erroneous Krueger are, in
engineering terms, ignorant and abusive clowns "under any signal
condition".

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE REASONE INDICTMENT, ERRONEOUS KRUEGER TELLS
US THIS:

On Oct 25, 10:31 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message

roups.com...

Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard of.

Just goes to show that Jute is so stupid and arrogant that he is willing to
go on record agreeing with the sockpuppet known as George Middius. AFAIK,
the lie that I ever attended a community college is a lie that was
originated on Usenet by the Middiot.

You're tight, Krueger, I merely reported what others said about you.

I graduated from Oakland University

Never heard of that one either. The rest of your post is poor-quality
smoke to avoid the main issue:

So, Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger, where is your excuse for claiming
that Class A must hold true "under any condition of signal"?

which has never been a community
college. It is the only degree-granting institution of higher education that
I've ever attended. True, there is an educational resource named Oakland
Community College, but it is a completely different institution.

The rest of Jute's post is about as truthful as this false claim.

Do you, Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger, deny that you agreed with
Poopie Stevenson that Class A must hold true "under any condition of
signal"?

Unsigned out of contempt for a liar and a fool

All hail the marketer cheap-Jute. When are you going to get back to
the definition of AB? back to claiming AB amps workin Class A for some
fraction of its rated power? good grief Chuck, go wait for the great
pumpkin.

So you run your amps with clipping inducing signal? Signal is only of
concern below the level required to deliver max power. What is the
value of discussing signal that overdrives the amp? Turn the volume
down fooool, or build a bigger amp.

Class A means the finals are at a minimum idling at half the current
they'll conduct at full power. It doesn't matter if the design can
deal with grid current or not. If it can, then of course power will be
higher than if it couldn't. Why would you worry about an AB amp's
behaviour under signal higher than required to deliver max
power( unless you're discussing the overload behaviour perhaps ). You
know what was meant, and at worst the idea was mis-spoken. Get a grip!
Cloud the issue, split

The part of the an AB amp's finals conducting together is not class A.
Your agreement isn't required, just like we don't need your approval
for the Sun to rise the next morning. It will rise regardless...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

"Multi-grid" wrote in message ups.com...
On Oct 26, 12:29 am, Andre Jute wrote:
IN RESPONSE TO THIS

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."

The three "engineers" in question are Graham "Poopie" Stevenson, Don
"Bluster" Pearce and Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger. Apparently they
are perfectly unable to understand, after they have been told so a
handful of times already, that "any signal condition" includes
overdrive which turns even the correct part of the definition into
absurd nonsense.

Here's the sequence of their errors, with a small sample of their
abuse liberally spattered over the newsgroups:

First Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience, pointed out that Poopie
Stevenson made a silly error:

Poopie's absurd redefinition of Class A as
a Class in which "the output device(s)never cease conducting *under
any signal condition*," (emphasis added). It's ludicrous.

Then Poopie Stevenson confirmed:

It's actually the only accurate definition.

And Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger agreed without any qualification:

Agreed.

Then Andre Jute, he of the saintly patience even with fools, pointed
out that the two parts of redefinition are mutually exclusive:

Any amp can be driven out of class by excessive signal voltage.

Which Poopie tried to blow away with poor-quality smoke:

Overdriving to cut-off is merely gross abuse and a complete red herring /
irrelevance.

Fully supported of course by his yes-man, Arny "I spoke in error"
Krueger:

Agreed. Jute seems to be addicted to excluded-middle arguments. Kick out
those and the straw men, and he's hardly have anything to say. ;-)

Now Don Pearce tries to bluster the argument out with an obvious lie:

Can you overdrive a class A amp to cutoff? In my experience what
happens when you overdrive a class A amp is that one device saturates,
and the other sticks with its normal bias condition. There is no
circumstance in which I have ever managed to put a class A amplifier
output device into cutoff.

d

Of course, it is irrelevant (perhaps even commendable) that Don Pearce
lives such a dull and unadventurous life that he has never overdriven
a Class A amp; perhaps he doesn't own a Class A amp; on the evidence
in this thread he doesn't even know what a Class A amp is. What
matters is that Don Pearce, like Arny Krueger, supports Poopie
Stevenson's absurd definition of Class A operation as 360 degrees of
conduction "under any signal condition".

How can any properly educated engineer not know that the signal in an
amplifier class is by necessity limited?

It is difficult not to conclude that these three clowns, Stevenson,
Krueger and Pearce, are either not engineers, or were not properly
educated, or are too old and fat and slack to remember the basics they
were taught.

I have on previous occasions demonstrated what Poopie Stevenson's
claim of a University of London degree actually means: not very much,
as he got his degree from a jumped-up polytechnic (a British version
of the soldering schools Ludwig is addicted to) forced onto UL by a
socialist government trying to save a buck. Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard
of. Who knows where Pearce was so misshapen as to believe that it
doesn't matter how much signal voltage you use in an amplifier?

Poopie Stevenson, Bluster Pearce and Erroneous Krueger are, in
engineering terms, ignorant and abusive clowns "under any signal
condition".

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE REASONE INDICTMENT, ERRONEOUS KRUEGER TELLS
US THIS:

On Oct 25, 10:31 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message

roups.com...

Others have noted that
Krueger was "educated" at a community college I have never even heard of.

Just goes to show that Jute is so stupid and arrogant that he is willing to
go on record agreeing with the sockpuppet known as George Middius. AFAIK,
the lie that I ever attended a community college is a lie that was
originated on Usenet by the Middiot.

You're tight, Krueger, I merely reported what others said about you.

I graduated from Oakland University

Never heard of that one either. The rest of your post is poor-quality
smoke to avoid the main issue:

So, Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger, where is your excuse for claiming
that Class A must hold true "under any condition of signal"?

which has never been a community
college. It is the only degree-granting institution of higher education that
I've ever attended. True, there is an educational resource named Oakland
Community College, but it is a completely different institution.

The rest of Jute's post is about as truthful as this false claim.

Do you, Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger, deny that you agreed with
Poopie Stevenson that Class A must hold true "under any condition of
signal"?

Unsigned out of contempt for a liar and a fool

All hail the marketer cheap-Jute. When are you going to get back to
the definition of AB? back to claiming AB amps workin Class A for some
fraction of its rated power? good grief Chuck, go wait for the great
pumpkin.

So you run your amps with clipping inducing signal? Signal is only of
concern below the level required to deliver max power. What is the
value of discussing signal that overdrives the amp? Turn the volume
down fooool, or build a bigger amp.

Class A means the finals are at a minimum idling at half the current
they'll conduct at full power. It doesn't matter if the design can
deal with grid current or not. If it can, then of course power will be
higher than if it couldn't. Why would you worry about an AB amp's
behaviour under signal higher than required to deliver max
power( unless you're discussing the overload behaviour perhaps ). You
know what was meant, and at worst the idea was mis-spoken. Get a grip!
Cloud the issue, split

The part of the an AB amp's finals conducting together is not class A.
Your agreement isn't required, just like we don't need your approval
for the Sun to rise the next morning. It will rise regardless...:)
cheers,
Douglas

Doug, think for a minute about the description, "Class AB." What could
that possibly mean? That the amp operates part of the time in A and part
of the time in B? Why, Duh, that's exactly how a Class AB amp operates!
Must be why they call it Class AB!

There's a difference between a Class A amplifier and Class A operation.
A Class AB amplifier isn't a Class A amplifier but it is capable of Class A
Operation under certain conditions. That's *why* it's called Class AB.

Fred

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Andre Jute wrote:

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."

And of course they are correct. It is the very textbook DEFINITION of Class A.

Graham

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Andre Jute wrote:

You really have to wonder.

Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is
an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease
conducting under any signal condition."


Let's see, I graduated Syracuse University in 1978 with a BSEE, so I'd
be an engineer. For class A, I'd add the condition "if the input signal
level doesn't drive the amp into distortion or clipping" to "_all_ the
output device(s)never cease conducting under any signal condition.". I
also added "all" to make it clear that each and every output device
never turns off. I've seen class A amps that had push-pull tubes, each
tube configured to never shut off, thru out the entire waveform cycle.
This would help reduce 2nd harmonic distortions (or have perfect
cancellation IF both tubes have identical characteristics and fed
identical except inverted signals).

Okay, how about class AB? That's usually a push pull configuration
where, at or near zero crossing, both devices are conducting. But get
above, say 10% of maximum input signal level, one of the devices stops
conducting, and the other device is doing the work. Lets also say that
this is a 100W amplifier, if you run it with an input signal that makes
only 1 watt (the volume control is set low), then, sure you could call
it a 1 watt class A amp. But that'd be rather silly...

Class B is where there is no class A overlap. Sure, you could have low
quiescent current, but you could easily have crossover distortion. And
it'd sound like a cheap op-amp...

And there's class C, but that's not usable in audio work. It's used in
FM RF transmitters, where the distortions are filtered out.

And there's class D, which IIRC is a pulse width modulation scheme with
a clock running at about 10X the highest audio frequency. And heavy low
pass filtering to remove the clock and its harmonics. Mainly used in
solid state amps, and even there it's not real common.