What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
 

John Byrns wrote:

Incidentally, I thought train drivers drive trains, and
engineers keep the engine running, mostly by shovelling
coal. Hence with the coming of diesels, drivers remain
whereas engineers, in that sense, are gone.

In American parlance the guys who shoveled coal were
called firemen, and
they are indeed gone while the engineers remain on the
diesels.

America must be really complicated. What do you call people
who put out fires?

Trying to remember the Casey Jones theme tune. Or was it the
Grateful Dead song. Somehow I knew that American engineers
drive trains.

A train that treks across a wilderness is rather more of a
venture than one that snakes between towns, so I wouldn't be
surprised at a different division of labour amongst the
crew.

Ian

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

I've worked in the audio/video business as an engineer for 25 years
now, primarily in systems integration. And yes, I attended some well
recognized engineering schools.

An engineering school can only prepare you with the basics and teach
you approaches and processes. No one that's sat through differential
equations, electromechanics, and physical chemistry will ever tell you
that it's easy.

Recognize you've focused on a very tiny slice of a traditional
electrical engineering education- amplifier design. Analog circuit
design may amount to less than 100 class hours during a four year
degree. Amplifier design may amount to 15% of that course at most.
You do the math.

Clearly there have been amplifier successes and failure in every class
listed. Can you honestly say a Quad 303 (Class B) was not a success,
remaining in production for years? How many of the initial Class D
amps were a total failure, yet some of the chip amps today are
incredibly good values and sound great? Most Class A amplifiers are
incredibly annoying in summertime and can't move woofers. The vast
majority of amplifier are AB for a number of practical reasons, yet
that hardly makes them superior in all aspects.

I think you owe these folks an apology.

What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
 

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:35:06 GMT, "Ian Iveson"
wrote:

A train that treks across a wilderness is rather more of a
venture than one that snakes between towns, so I wouldn't be
surprised at a different division of labour amongst the
crew.

Technically easier to "set it and leave it" on a long run, I'd have
thought. More skill needed on a complex urban route.

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

" wrote:

I think you owe these folks an apology.

Joot owes the entire WORLD an apology for his mere existence.

Graham

What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

A train that treks across a wilderness is rather more of a
venture than one that snakes between towns, so I wouldn't
be
surprised at a different division of labour amongst the
crew.

Technically easier to "set it and leave it" on a long run,
I'd have
thought. More skill needed on a complex urban route.

OTOH, if you break down in the middle of nowhere in America,
or run into a bison or an elk, there's wildcats, bears,
wolves, coyotes, rattlesnakes, injuns, Billy the Kid, and
vultures. You need to be able to fix the train and get out
of there fast.

"Train driver" encourages the misconception, common I guess
among children who want to be train drivers, that trains
have steering wheels, and require great skill to keep them
on the tracks.

Oh, and ...

http://www.trainweb.org/caseyjones/song.html

"A story 'bout a brave engineer"

"If I can have Sim Webb, my fireman, my engine 382"

Ian

What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
 

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:10:13 GMT, "Ian Iveson"
wrote:

Technically easier to "set it and leave it" on a long run,
I'd have
thought. More skill needed on a complex urban route.

OTOH, if you break down in the middle of nowhere in America,
or run into a bison or an elk, there's wildcats, bears,
wolves, coyotes, rattlesnakes, injuns, Billy the Kid, and
vultures. You need to be able to fix the train and get out
of there fast.

I'd be more worried about the human coyotes who'd have the train
stripped if you broke down on an urban run :-)

What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorlyeducated?)
 

Ian Iveson wrote:

"Train driver" encourages the misconception, common I guess
among children who want to be train drivers, that trains
have steering wheels, and require great skill to keep them
on the tracks.

What a load of absurd nonsense. But then, what else to expect fom you ? It
certainly never confused me for sure.

Graham

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

On Oct 27, 6:39 am, " wrote:
I've worked in the audio/video business as an engineer for 25 years
now, primarily in systems integration. And yes, I attended some well
recognized engineering schools.

Congratulations.

An engineering school can only prepare you with the basics and teach
you approaches and processes. No one that's sat through differential
equations, electromechanics, and physical chemistry will ever tell you
that it's easy.

Congratulations to all of them.

Recognize you've focused on a very tiny slice of a traditional
electrical engineering education- amplifier design. Analog circuit
design may amount to less than 100 class hours during a four year
degree. Amplifier design may amount to 15% of that course at most.
You do the math.

I don't have to. This isn't actually about competent engineers and
their education, about whom I said nothing at all, but about your
comprehension skills. Apparently you didn't notice that I put
"engineers" in quotation marks because I was speaking of an egregious
minority posturing on the internet as experts on amp design. If you
had read the thread, you would have discovered that I named three self-
styled engineers and accused them of lying on professional matters for
personal reasons. The three are Graham "Poopie" Stevenson, Arny
"Slapdash" Krueger and Don "Bluster" Pearce. If, as you say, their
entire amplifier design education/experience between the three of them
adds up to only 45 hours, why are they spouting off on the net,
pretending to know more than those who have spent hundreds, perhaps
thousands of hours, with amplifier design?

Since you're so righteous, why didn't you long since kick their slack
arses for their presumption?

Clearly there have been amplifier successes and failure in every class
listed. Can you honestly say a Quad 303 (Class B) was not a success,
remaining in production for years? How many of the initial Class D
amps were a total failure, yet some of the chip amps today are
incredibly good values and sound great? Most Class A amplifiers are
incredibly annoying in summertime and can't move woofers. The vast
majority of amplifier are AB for a number of practical reasons, yet
that hardly makes them superior in all aspects.

Sure, but so what? Quad wasn't designed by a braggartly incompetent
like Poopie Stevenson, or a liar like Slapdash Krueger, or a dullard
like Bluster Pearce. (I'm big on Quad, having two kinds of
electrostats and quite a few Quad amps both solid state and tube.)

I think you owe these folks an apology.

Why? You haven't made a case for anything except that engineers (all
of them in your version) suffer a lack of education in amplifier
design, the metasubject of this thread. My accusation was much, much
more limited and specific and, what is more, I proved my case by
making the main transgressor, Poopie Stevenson, recant his lie several
times right out in public. I stand by it. Seems to me you're the one
owing an apology to all these perfectly sound engineers you have now
included, absolutely against my intention as the starter and owner of
this thread, in " Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?"

I absolutely repudiate your calumnies against the good engineers,
" .

Andre Jute
If you think I'm tough on engineers, you should hear what I say about
psychiatrists and economists...

Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

On Oct 27, 7:42 am, Eeyore
wrote:
" wrote:
I think you owe these folks an apology.

Joot owes the entire WORLD an apology for his mere existence.

Graham

Stop whining, Poopie. You held yourself up as an expert, Slapdash
Krueger and Bluster Pearce joined you in your lie, you were caught out
in a professional lie, you got your butt kicked for it, you recanted
(several times), so why drag out your humiliation any further. Let it
die, sonny.

Andre Jute
"Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving
us wordly evidence of the fact."-- George Elliot

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Andre Jute wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:
I think you owe these folks an apology.

Joot owes the entire WORLD an apology for his mere existence.

Graham

Stop whining, Poopie. You held yourself up as an expert, Slapdash
Krueger and Bluster Pearce joined you in your lie, you were caught out
in a professional lie, you got your butt kicked for it

No I didn't.

Now stop telling lies.

Graham