Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Yes. That point was never in any doubt. VITC is useful in audio post
when audio workstations are locked to a picture master with a
synchroniser, and indispensibe when placing spot effects at crawl or
scrub speeds, or laying foley such as footsteps.

Surely you're not still working with a VTR for dubbing? How very quaint. I
was using non linear for this in the mid '90s. Saves a deal of time.

I haven't ben involved in dubbing for years.
I am too expensive:-)

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Yes. That point was never in any doubt. VITC is useful in audio post
when audio workstations are locked to a picture master with a
synchroniser, and indispensibe when placing spot effects at crawl or
scrub speeds, or laying foley such as footsteps.

Surely you're not still working with a VTR for dubbing? How very
quaint. I was using non linear for this in the mid '90s. Saves a deal
of time.

I haven't ben involved in dubbing for years.

You really should have a word with that spell checker.

I am too expensive:-)

Be interesting to know who can command a higher fee - a dubbing mixer on a
top movie or a recording engineer on a hit pop recording. I'd guess the
former.

--
*No hand signals. Driver on Viagra*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Yes. That point was never in any doubt. VITC is useful in audio post
when audio workstations are locked to a picture master with a
synchroniser, and indispensibe when placing spot effects at crawl or
scrub speeds, or laying foley such as footsteps.

Surely you're not still working with a VTR for dubbing? How very
quaint. I was using non linear for this in the mid '90s. Saves a deal
of time.

I haven't ben involved in dubbing for years.

You really should have a word with that spell checker.

It is a "spelling" checker.
It has no connection whatsoever with John Wellington Wells:-)

I am too expensive:-)

Be interesting to know who can command a higher fee - a dubbing mixer on a
top movie or a recording engineer on a hit pop recording. I'd guess the
former.


Few dubbing jobs are "top movies". Dolby surround mixes for
corporate programmes are fun, but TV has both technical
and budget restrictions. (Before you ask - there is little point
building up complex and subtle layers of ambience and low
level FX which no one will ever hear from TV) And, as
one of my favourite producers is fond of saying "God is in
the detail" :-)

Besides, classical recording and editing is much more
to my liking. It is both challenging and well-paid,
and one gets the chance to travel.
There is plenty of work.

Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

But perhaps you'd answer my question about the relevance of LTC/VITC when
dealing with an analogue audio recorder? Even if 'the EBU' think there is?

I have done that twice. The term LTC is used on EBU documentation
because it describes the actual code, not the governing body.

Locking to VITC is is especially good for foley, as I have mentioned
before. Good synchronisers can regenerate this into LTC for
analogue recorders to chase if required.

The spelling checker changed it to what it thought it
should have been. I posted a correction immediately.

Of course. Blame the tools.

I blame myself for not noticing it. I use a computer with a
spelling checker in three languages. If my apology/explanantion
does not satisfy you, then I regret there is nothing more I
can do.-(

It is not critical. Perhaps you can explain to me the need for coherence
between BD and a vocal track? :-)

If those were the only two instruments and multi-tracks were only used for
pop music

Those are the usual allocations for outer tracks in music.
I am not really to interested in what you do for TV
soaps, football matches etc.

You are jumping to an totally incorrect conclusion, probably due to
lack of first hand experience of music recording.


You dropped a clanger and as usual try to wriggle out of it.

Point me to it. I think it more likely that you mis-understood
what I wrote as music recording is not your area of expertise.

The more you write the more I'm convinced you never worked in a high end
studio.

Decca, RCA, SoundTrack and ProVideo are as "hi-end" as they come.

A decent multi-track has a *switchable* code track that may be
used for either. Much more expensive of course. But near essential for
serious use.

The switching is done not on the machine but on the patchbay,
using 24 pairs of normalled jacks.In the case of track 24 there
is a jack in the row above marked LTC. The normalled jack
for track 24 is connected for audio unless the connection is
interrupted for LTC.

But in most cases there is no LTC. As a guard track is not required, in
practical terms, the low level TC is far less lightly to interfere with
the vocal than it is to be affected a Bass or BD track. Think about it.

I have. And made no mention of what instruments, etc, to avoid next to the
code track. It's all pretty basic stuff for one used to working with time
code locked analogue machines. Which I apparently, as a lowly 'freelance
location sound recordist', have rather more experience of than you.

With music? Not a chance:-) I know from what you have written
about your BBC grade and responsibilities, and from people
who worked with you at Thames that you had no formal training
in music recording. If you had, you would be doing it. No doubt
about that:-)))


regards
Iain

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Be interesting to know who can command a higher fee - a dubbing mixer
on a top movie or a recording engineer on a hit pop recording. I'd
guess the former.


Few dubbing jobs are "top movies".

Few hit records made either these days. Tiny sales compared to once.

Dolby surround mixes for
corporate programmes are fun,

Oh - you work on 'corporates'? Never mind. Just don't mention it on your
CV.

but TV has both technical and budget restrictions.

Pray tell what 'technical' restrictions apply to TV compared to the
corporates you obviously know about? And the budget for most corporates is
tiny - as well as being a one off which prevents the spreading of costs as
in a series.

(Before you ask - there is little point
building up complex and subtle layers of ambience and low
level FX which no one will ever hear from TV)

Thanks for confirming you know nothing about TV dubbing either.

And, as one of my favourite producers is fond of saying "God is in the
detail" :-)

And he produces which movies?

Besides, classical recording and editing is much more
to my liking. It is both challenging and well-paid,
and one gets the chance to travel.
There is plenty of work.

Good for you. Others might say 'forced' to travel.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:
Be interesting to know who can command a higher fee - a dubbing mixer
on a top movie or a recording engineer on a hit pop recording. I'd
guess the former.


Few dubbing jobs are "top movies".

Few hit records made either these days. Tiny sales compared to once.

Dolby surround mixes for
corporate programmes are fun,

Oh - you work on 'corporates'? Never mind. Just don't mention it on your
CV.

but TV has both technical and budget restrictions.

Pray tell what 'technical' restrictions apply to TV compared to the
corporates you obviously know about? And the budget for most corporates is
tiny - as well as being a one off which prevents the spreading of costs as
in a series.


IME, only a real prick uses the words 'pray tell'....



Besides, classical recording and editing is much more
to my liking. It is both challenging and well-paid,
and one gets the chance to travel.
There is plenty of work.

Good for you. Others might say 'forced' to travel.


Wipe your chin, Plowie - you're drooling....




--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

But perhaps you'd answer my question about the relevance of LTC/VITC
when dealing with an analogue audio recorder? Even if 'the EBU' think
there is?

I have done that twice. The term LTC is used on EBU documentation
because it describes the actual code, not the governing body.

I'm still not sure what 'EBU documentation' is. Perhaps the companies you
work for buy it in because they can't afford to print their own. And I've
never seem it on the few multi-track tapes I've had to deal with which
originated in Europe.

Locking to VITC is is especially good for foley, as I have mentioned
before. Good synchronisers can regenerate this into LTC for
analogue recorders to chase if required.

The spelling checker changed it to what it thought it
should have been. I posted a correction immediately.

Of course. Blame the tools.

I blame myself for not noticing it. I use a computer with a
spelling checker in three languages. If my apology/explanantion
does not satisfy you, then I regret there is nothing more I
can do.-(

It is not critical. Perhaps you can explain to me the need for
coherence between BD and a vocal track? :-)

If those were the only two instruments and multi-tracks were only used
for pop music

Those are the usual allocations for outer tracks in music. I am not
really to interested in what you do for TV soaps, football matches etc.

I sort of gathered that. What does surprise me is that 'we' obviously have
rather higher technical standards than you - since you seem to think it
an OK idea to put the principle track on an adjacent one to the code.

You are jumping to an totally incorrect conclusion, probably due to
lack of first hand experience of music recording.


You dropped a clanger and as usual try to wriggle out of it.

Point me to it. I think it more likely that you mis-understood
what I wrote as music recording is not your area of expertise.

And working with time code seems to be way over your area of expertise too
- although of course you'll not admit it. But shortly this becomes even
more clear...

The more you write the more I'm convinced you never worked in a high
end studio.

Decca, RCA, SoundTrack and ProVideo are as "hi-end" as they come.

Right. Noted.

A decent multi-track has a *switchable* code track that may be
used for either. Much more expensive of course. But near essential for
serious use.

The switching is done not on the machine but on the patchbay,
using 24 pairs of normalled jacks.In the case of track 24 there
is a jack in the row above marked LTC. The normalled jack
for track 24 is connected for audio unless the connection is
interrupted for LTC.

Iain, Iain.

Even the most lowly dubbing suite I've worked in for TV with its
'technical and budget restrictions' - remember those words? - wouldn't
dream of mixing time code and audio on the same jackfield. Nor, unless
ancient, would the code need patching - it would go via a routing matrix
for source and destination. The multi-track *code* channel would be fed
from this while track 24 would appear along with the audio on an audio
jackfield for any over plugging needed. The machine itself can be switched
from normal 24 track to 23 plus code. There will be a separate jackfield
dealing purely with code for ease of fault finding etc and for the rare
occasions when manual patching is required.

Just to educate you somewhat, timecode is a digital signal and analogue
machines make somewhat of a pig's ear of recording it. Rather in the same
way as they remove transients from the programme material. So special
electronics are required to a) record it at the best level and b) recover
it off tape in the cleanest form. Of course this adds considerably to the
cost so only reasonably professional outfits would pay for it. Others try
and limp along without.

But in most cases there is no LTC. As a guard track is not required,
in practical terms, the low level TC is far less lightly to interfere
with the vocal than it is to be affected a Bass or BD track. Think
about it.

I have. And made no mention of what instruments, etc, to avoid next to
the code track. It's all pretty basic stuff for one used to working
with time code locked analogue machines. Which I apparently, as a
lowly 'freelance location sound recordist', have rather more
experience of than you.

With music? Not a chance:-)

No, Iain. Time code. You're wriggling yet again.

I know from what you have written about your BBC grade and
responsibilities, and from people who worked with you at Thames that you
had no formal training in music recording. If you had, you would be
doing it. No doubt about that:-)))

I wonder about your so called music recording experience since you clearly
don't know much about the upper end of analogue tape recorders if you've
not come across a multi-track designed for use with time code. And sing
the praises of Levers Rich.

But you really are the most pretentious snob, Iain. And know little about
television. There is no 'formal training' in music recording at either the
BBC or any other TV company I know about, except as part of general
training. As to you knowing 'people who worked with me at Thames' they
seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I wonder why? The one thing I do
know is that my colleagues from the old Thames TV sound department had no
time for prima donnas.

--
*Rehab is for quitters.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Pray tell what 'technical' restrictions apply to TV compared to the
corporates you obviously know about? And the budget for most
corporates is tiny - as well as being a one off which prevents the
spreading of costs as in a series.


IME, only a real prick uses the words 'pray tell'....

Don't think I'm too worried about your literary opinions, Keithie baby.


Besides, classical recording and editing is much more
to my liking. It is both challenging and well-paid,
and one gets the chance to travel.
There is plenty of work.

Good for you. Others might say 'forced' to travel.

Wipe your chin, Plowie - you're drooling....

Not at all. I've done my fair share of travelling work wise and prefer to
come home at night. Of course Iain may well prefer an hotel to his 'home'.
and spending all his spare time with his work colleagues. It's his choice.

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Pray tell what 'technical' restrictions apply to TV compared to the
corporates you obviously know about? And the budget for most
corporates is tiny - as well as being a one off which prevents the
spreading of costs as in a series.


IME, only a real prick uses the words 'pray tell'....

Don't think I'm too worried about your literary opinions, Keithie baby.


Literary? You consider your posts 'literature'....??




Besides, classical recording and editing is much more
to my liking. It is both challenging and well-paid,
and one gets the chance to travel.
There is plenty of work.

Good for you. Others might say 'forced' to travel.

Wipe your chin, Plowie - you're drooling....

Not at all. I've done my fair share of travelling work wise and prefer to
come home at night.



Watford isn't really *travelling*.....


Of course Iain may well prefer an hotel to his 'home'.
and spending all his spare time with his work colleagues. It's his choice.

--
*If I throw a stick, will you leave?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Valerian Vinyl
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
IME, only a real prick uses the words 'pray tell'....

Don't think I'm too worried about your literary opinions, Keithie baby.


Literary? You consider your posts 'literature'....??

Any written word may be called literature, Keithie. Thanks for confirming
my statement.

--
*Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.