Frequency response of the ear
 

In article , Keith G
scribeth thus

"Jim Lesurf" wrote


I've stopped going to 'shows' at our local theatre. They have a 'Bose'
'Sound Reinforcement' system.


So does the Royal Albert Hall, although I don't know if it's 'Bose'. (Does
it particularly matter if it's 'Bose'?)

Yes they were Bose last year .. There only used to tell you to put your
phones off or on silent;!"..

When I was last there a few years ago now, I told my other half to close her
eyes and follow the sound which she did - I watched as her head lifted 'till
she was lined up on the ring of speakers in the ceiling!

Which is why I don't really care about 'live' any more and why I laugh when
I see all the 'accuracy' and 'fidelity' arguments!!


--
Tony Sayer

Frequency response of the ear
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The format weas discontinued, I have long since mis-laid
the course diploma but I do still have the huge blue-glazed
coffee mug with SDDS in gold leaf on the side:-))

Do you have a Blue Peter badge too, Iain?

The SDDS course was greatly oversubscribed. I
was happy to have been chosen to take part in it.


Iain

Frequency response of the ear
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The format weas discontinued, I have long since mis-laid
the course diploma but I do still have the huge blue-glazed
coffee mug with SDDS in gold leaf on the side:-))

Do you have a Blue Peter badge too, Iain?

The SDDS course was greatly oversubscribed. I
was happy to have been chosen to take part in it.

Of course. They couldn't possibly have left out such a famous dubbing
mixer as yourself.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Frequency response of the ear
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The format weas discontinued, I have long since mis-laid
the course diploma but I do still have the huge blue-glazed
coffee mug with SDDS in gold leaf on the side:-))

Do you have a Blue Peter badge too, Iain?

The SDDS course was greatly oversubscribed. I
was happy to have been chosen to take part in it.


If he wasn't such a sneering little **** you'd almost feel sorry for Poochie
the 'microphone monkey' - it must have been his blackest day ever, when a
real *industry pro* turned up here! :-)

Frequency response of the ear
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

The format weas discontinued, I have long since mis-laid
the course diploma but I do still have the huge blue-glazed
coffee mug with SDDS in gold leaf on the side:-))

Do you have a Blue Peter badge too, Iain?

The SDDS course was greatly oversubscribed. I
was happy to have been chosen to take part in it.

Of course. They couldn't possibly have left out such a famous dubbing
mixer as yourself.


I have guessed your theme-song. Dave:
Are you a Pink Floyd fan?

We don't need no educashun" :-)

Cheers
Iain

Frequency response of the ear
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

Thank gawd I don't claim to have passed a 'Tonmeister exam'


So you that a formal education and a professional
qualification are unimportant then?

'Tonmeister' is a name that didn't exist in the UK when I were a lad.

As far as the UK is concerned, the university course, which started
late 60s/early 70s was based upon the internal technical and artistic
tuition given at such companies as EMI, Decca and CBS The BBC
also had parallel courses, aimed specifically at broadcasting.

The advantage of an in-house scheme was that the company
could set up rehearsal/training sessions with a full symphony
orchestra, a string quartet, a big band or a rock group,
whatever was required. Also, many of the conductors,
and artists signed to thecompany, were willing to run master
classes for students. There was also clsose co-operation with
The Guildhall and the Royal School of Music. I was very
lucky indeed to be picked by maestro Bernard Herrmann
(best known for his music for the Hitchcock films, especially
"Psycho") He was a master of symphonic orchestration
and interpretation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKu78ztvkY


But none of us is too old for adult education,. Dave. I
am told that a former Technical Director at Swedish
Broadcast was in his mid fifties when he got his PhD.
The "piece of paper" was a pre-requisite for career
advancement. He came a long way from being a lighting
assistant (holding up huge slabs of Styrox to enhance
the features of the lovely Agneta Fältskog)



When I started in broadcast sound there were no general college courses
covering the work. You did what was more akin to an apprenticeship with
your employer. And learnt from skilled operators in the field. The BBC, of
course, in addition, had their own training department which ran a number
of residential courses to add to this.

In recording, particularly classical music recording, a knowledge of
the repertoire is so important, that a pick-it-up-as-you-go-along
approach is not really appropriate. But, there is much to be said
for hands-on experience. As Arthur Haddy used to say,
"These young graduates are all very nice young fellows. They
know a lot, but can't actually *do* anything:-)

Of course the record industry may well be different. After all you've
proved how much bull**** it runs on.

Have you told your pal who used to work at ETD how much better you
consider a Tonmeister course to be than the ones he was involved in?

There is actually quite a lot of common material. The choice of
course depends upon ones needs, and as they are intended for
different sectors of the profession, I don't think you consider
one better than the other.

Iain

Frequency response of the ear
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



Sadly, in pop music, the majority rules, and mastering fashion has
reached the its current state due to the silent approval by the vast
majority of ther public, and the lethargy of those who might appreciate
something better:-)

I don't really agree with the semantic implications of the phrases "silent
approval" and "lethargy" in the above.

Complaints are very few indeed, which indicates that people
are either sastisfied or too lethargic to complain.

Although I do appreciate that these
phrases probably do describe the wishful thinking and delusions of the
people who "master" music by choosing to apply high amounts of compression
and to clip.

They are simply giving the listeners what they (think they) want.
Talk to people, especially youngsters about pop music. Most
will tell you "it sounds great to me"

Fortunately for me, the types of music I like generally have avoided the
dimwitted excess level compressions, clipping, etc

That's probably true for most of us here.

But it does bother me
that others who prefer other forms of music get this regardless.

Again, Jim, talk to people, especially youngsters about pop music,
and their expectations.


Regards
Iain

Frequency response of the ear
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



Sadly, in pop music, the majority rules, and mastering fashion has
reached the its current state due to the silent approval by the vast
majority of ther public, and the lethargy of those who might
appreciate something better:-)

I don't really agree with the semantic implications of the phrases
"silent approval" and "lethargy" in the above.

Complaints are very few indeed, which indicates that people are either
sastisfied or too lethargic to complain.

I agree. People (including myself) eventually decide it is a waste of time
to complain if previous attempts at feedback produce no useful outcome. i
guess people have no interest in keeping meeedia suits in a job.



But it does bother me that others who prefer other forms of music get
this regardless.

Again, Jim, talk to people, especially youngsters about pop music, and
their expectations.

I do. It is a common topic when I lecture or give tutorials as a lot of my
coursework is based on audio examples. It is clear that many have no
awarness of 'hifi' at all and have never heard anything decent. But it is
also clear than many regard pop/rock CDs as being of poor sound quality.
They've just concluded that this is like the weather. No point in
complaining.

Admittedly the 'young people' I talk to tend to be in the 17-25 year old
range. Maybe this is too old for the group you have in mind.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Frequency response of the ear
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



Sadly, in pop music, the majority rules, and mastering fashion has
reached the its current state due to the silent approval by the vast
majority of ther public, and the lethargy of those who might
appreciate something better:-)

I don't really agree with the semantic implications of the phrases
"silent approval" and "lethargy" in the above.

Complaints are very few indeed, which indicates that people are either
sastisfied or too lethargic to complain.

I agree. People (including myself) eventually decide it is a waste of time
to complain if previous attempts at feedback produce no useful outcome. i
guess people have no interest in keeping meeedia suits in a job.

You probably won't get far with one phone call. If your really
feel that you have been short-changed them some determination
in getting the matter sorted out, is required. I remember I once
gave you a "hot line" telephone number for EMI quality control.
Did you ever follow it up?


But it does bother me that others who prefer other forms of music get
this regardless.

Again, Jim, talk to people, especially youngsters about pop music, and
their expectations.

I do. It is a common topic when I lecture or give tutorials as a lot of my
coursework is based on audio examples. It is clear that many have no
awarness of 'hifi' at all and have never heard anything decent. But it is
also clear than many regard pop/rock CDs as being of poor sound quality.
They've just concluded that this is like the weather. No point in
complaining.

Quite the reverse. That's the soft option. If therew is something wrong,
then bringing it to the attention of people who can do something about
it, is the only way to get the matter resolved.

Most retailers are probably not a bit interested, and can
only offer you "another one the same" so one has to go back to the
label.

Admittedly the 'young people' I talk to tend to be in the 17-25 year old
range. Maybe this is too old for the group you have in mind.

No. That's the perfect range. One young lady said just recently.
"I buy 10-15 CDs at a time. If I don't like a couple of them, I just
swop them, or give them away" :-)

She may well be typical. Who knows?


in

Frequency response of the ear
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

I agree. People (including myself) eventually decide it is a waste of
time to complain if previous attempts at feedback produce no useful
outcome. i guess people have no interest in keeping meeedia suits in a
job.

You probably won't get far with one phone call. If your really feel
that you have been short-changed them some determination in getting the
matter sorted out, is required. I remember I once gave you a "hot
line" telephone number for EMI quality control. Did you ever follow it
up?

Yes. That was the most recent experience that confirmed my previous
conclusions. I phoned the number, only to find that no-one there knew what
I was talking about. Over a period of 2-3 weeks I phoned (and then emailed)
a number of people at EMI. No-one sorted out the problem or took what I
said seriously. The attitude was "if the CD is faulty, get a replacement"
regardless of my pointing out that I *had* tried *four* replacements and
they were all showing the same problem. A production fault.

Afraid, Iain, that my experience confirmed I was wasting my time.


But it does bother me that others who prefer other forms of music
get this regardless.

Again, Jim, talk to people, especially youngsters about pop music,
and their expectations.

I do. It is a common topic when I lecture or give tutorials as a lot
of my coursework is based on audio examples. It is clear that many
have no awarness of 'hifi' at all and have never heard anything
decent. But it is also clear than many regard pop/rock CDs as being of
poor sound quality. They've just concluded that this is like the
weather. No point in complaining.

Quite the reverse. That's the soft option. If therew is something
wrong, then bringing it to the attention of people who can do something
about it, is the only way to get the matter resolved.

My experience over many decades is otherwise, I'm afraid. I have often
complained, or asked for help. In general, nothing useful results.

Most retailers are probably not a bit interested, and can only offer you
"another one the same" so one has to go back to the label.

Admittedly the 'young people' I talk to tend to be in the 17-25 year
old range. Maybe this is too old for the group you have in mind.

No. That's the perfect range. One young lady said just recently. "I buy
10-15 CDs at a time. If I don't like a couple of them, I just swop
them, or give them away" :-)

She may well be typical. Who knows?

Dunno. She may be typical of those who feel it is still worth the effort of
buying a CD. Can't say from just one as that makes assessment of
statistical significance impossible. But the vital point is that may not
tell us much about those who don't bother to buy CDs as it seems a waste of
time to them.

The problem with 'examples' like the one you quote is that they fall into a
well-known statistical flaw. If you go into a pub and ask the people there,
"How many of you have been killed as a result of driving faster than the
speed limit?" the response will probably indicate that no-one has. This
does not mean speeding is 'safe'. It just means you are preselecting the
group you are surveying to make mince of your conclusions. The error is
drawing an conclusion as a result of making a false assumption about what
you can deduce from the 'evidence'.

My experience is that the above is quite a fair analogy for the waymuch of
the pop/rock part of the music biz has proceeded to regard the 'market'.
Sorry if you don't see this, but tragic if they don't... GIGO.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html