Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:39:43 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

If you are recording, you definitely do not want a mic designed for
vocals - they all have a peculiar frequency response. Can you give
us a clue as to budget? That'll make a short list a whole heap
easier.


Definitely sub £100.



OK. Behringer is a good manufacturer for everything. I would go for a
pair of C-1 mics. They are decent cardioids, and Dolphin Music are
doing them at £28.95. They are condensors, so they need phantom power.
If you don't have that available, get yourself a small mixer. The
Behringer UB802 with four mic inputs will set you back about £45. That
is the basis of some really very high quality recording capability for
£100.

That do?


OK....that'll do nicely. Actually, I was reading C- 1 reviews just before I
read your message. They were mainly positive as to sound transparency
although some were not 100% sure about build quality/robustness. But hey, we
are not planning to go on tour and chuck stuff about. Also, one review
mentioned a noise issue, are you aware of this ?

The Roland capture unit I already have will do 48 volt phantom power and has
two XLR inputs.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You're a prat. You'll never see one used for vocals in a recording
studio. Live sound has different priorities - actual quality often
coming well down the list. So add that to all the other things you
don't know.


I don't get to see Mr. Allisons posts directly but I did see a fragment in
your post.

Surely, accurate fidelity might not always be desirable. There might be
circumstances where the characteristic sound of a SM 58 might be required
to get a "live" on-stage sound. I'm also thinking of the common practice of
getting feeds from mics placed in front of overdriven guitar amp speakers.
Hardly "accurate fidelity" but much better than the dry output from an
electric guitar.

In my opinion....

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:27:06 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:39:43 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

If you are recording, you definitely do not want a mic designed for
vocals - they all have a peculiar frequency response. Can you give
us a clue as to budget? That'll make a short list a whole heap
easier.


Definitely sub £100.



OK. Behringer is a good manufacturer for everything. I would go for a
pair of C-1 mics. They are decent cardioids, and Dolphin Music are
doing them at £28.95. They are condensors, so they need phantom power.
If you don't have that available, get yourself a small mixer. The
Behringer UB802 with four mic inputs will set you back about £45. That
is the basis of some really very high quality recording capability for
£100.

That do?


OK....that'll do nicely. Actually, I was reading C- 1 reviews just before I
read your message. They were mainly positive as to sound transparency
although some were not 100% sure about build quality/robustness. But hey, we
are not planning to go on tour and chuck stuff about. Also, one review
mentioned a noise issue, are you aware of this ?


Noise is rarely an issue in real life. I've certainly never yet
encountered a mic that was noisier than the ambience in anywhere other
than an acoustic isolation chamber, so I wouldn't worry about this. I
have found some noisy recording setups, but these were due to the
operator not understanding the gain staging process.

The Roland capture unit I already have will do 48 volt phantom power and has
two XLR inputs.


That'll do nicely, then. sixty quid and you are good to go. You can
spend the change on a stereo bar to mount the mics, and as good a
stand as you can afford. And some decent length cables, of course.

d

On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:35:44 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You're a prat. You'll never see one used for vocals in a recording
studio. Live sound has different priorities - actual quality often
coming well down the list. So add that to all the other things you
don't know.


I don't get to see Mr. Allisons posts directly but I did see a fragment in
your post.

Surely, accurate fidelity might not always be desirable. There might be
circumstances where the characteristic sound of a SM 58 might be required
to get a "live" on-stage sound. I'm also thinking of the common practice of
getting feeds from mics placed in front of overdriven guitar amp speakers.
Hardly "accurate fidelity" but much better than the dry output from an
electric guitar.

In my opinion....


When you are miking a solo voice or an individual instrument, you can
regard the mic as part of the "sound" of that source. But once you are
after catching an ensemble sound, you need flat and transparent.

d

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:27:06 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:39:43 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

If you are recording, you definitely do not want a mic designed
for vocals - they all have a peculiar frequency response. Can you
give us a clue as to budget? That'll make a short list a whole
heap easier.


Definitely sub £100.



OK. Behringer is a good manufacturer for everything. I would go for
a pair of C-1 mics. They are decent cardioids, and Dolphin Music are
doing them at £28.95. They are condensors, so they need phantom
power. If you don't have that available, get yourself a small
mixer. The Behringer UB802 with four mic inputs will set you back
about £45. That is the basis of some really very high quality
recording capability for £100.

That do?


OK....that'll do nicely. Actually, I was reading C- 1 reviews just
before I read your message. They were mainly positive as to sound
transparency although some were not 100% sure about build
quality/robustness. But hey, we are not planning to go on tour and
chuck stuff about. Also, one review mentioned a noise issue, are you
aware of this ?


Noise is rarely an issue in real life. I've certainly never yet
encountered a mic that was noisier than the ambience in anywhere other
than an acoustic isolation chamber, so I wouldn't worry about this. I
have found some noisy recording setups, but these were due to the
operator not understanding the gain staging process.

The Roland capture unit I already have will do 48 volt phantom power
and has two XLR inputs.


That'll do nicely, then. sixty quid and you are good to go. You can
spend the change on a stereo bar to mount the mics, and as good a
stand as you can afford. And some decent length cables, of course.


Just to say thanks for the advice Don, Dave.

In article ,
TonyL wrote:
You're a prat. You'll never see one used for vocals in a recording
studio. Live sound has different priorities - actual quality often
coming well down the list. So add that to all the other things you
don't know.


I don't get to see Mr. Allisons posts directly but I did see a fragment
in your post.

Surely, accurate fidelity might not always be desirable. There might be
circumstances where the characteristic sound of a SM 58 might be
required to get a "live" on-stage sound. I'm also thinking of the common
practice of getting feeds from mics placed in front of overdriven guitar
amp speakers. Hardly "accurate fidelity" but much better than the dry
output from an electric guitar.

You're unlikely to need the noise cancelling properties of a 58 to mic up
a cabinet. For that job pretty well any half decent mic will do which can
handle the SPL. And a mic with such a tailored frequency response - for
specific close vocal use - may well be not what you want for this task.
I'd normally use a 'flat' response mic and EQ to taste.

Horses for courses. And I stand by my view that the 58 is crap for
anything other than live pop stuff where the only important thing is how
much level you can get out of PA and foldback.

--
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

" Dave Plowman (Nutcase )"

You're unlikely to need the noise cancelling properties of a 58


** Huh ???

What " noise cancelling properties " ??

The SM58 has low handling noise and it is a cardioid.

But is has no hum bucking coil and the internal transformer is not shielded.



..... Phil

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:39:43 +0100, "TonyL"
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
If you are recording, you definitely do not want a mic designed for
vocals - they all have a peculiar frequency response. Can you give us
a clue as to budget? That'll make a short list a whole heap easier.

Definitely sub £100.

OK. Behringer is a good manufacturer for everything. I would go for a
pair of C-1 mics. They are decent cardioids, and Dolphin Music are
doing them at £28.95. They are condensors, so they need phantom power.
If you don't have that available, get yourself a small mixer. The
Behringer UB802 with four mic inputs will set you back about £45. That
is the basis of some really very high quality recording capability for
£100.

The C-1 is a large-diaphragm condensor mic. These can sound somewhat
coloured off-axis. You might be better off with a small diaphragm
condensor mic. The Neumann, AKG and Calrec types mentioned by Dave
Plowman fall into this category, but cost several hundred quid apiece.

Although large-diaphragm condensor mics are popular with the home
recording crowd, that's partly because they look impressive. A
small-diaphragm condensor mic is a more versatile general-purpose mic
and I would recommend going for those first, especially for acoustic quitar.

Fortunately, the Behringer C-2 appears to fit the bill and at the same
price. I've not used them but at around £56 for a matched pair including
stand adaptors, windshields and stereo bar they seem worth a look.

http://www.behringer.com/en/products/C-2.aspx


--
Richard Lamont http://www.lamont.me.uk/

OpenPGP Key ID: 0xBD89BE41
Fingerprint: CE78 C285 1F97 0BDA 886D BA78 26D8 6C34 BD89 BE41

Richard Lamont wrote:

Although large-diaphragm condensor mics are popular with the home
recording crowd, that's partly because they look impressive. A
small-diaphragm condensor mic is a more versatile general-purpose mic
and I would recommend going for those first, especially for acoustic
quitar.

Fortunately, the Behringer C-2 appears to fit the bill and at the same
price. I've not used them but at around £56 for a matched pair
including stand adaptors, windshields and stereo bar they seem worth
a look.

http://www.behringer.com/en/products/C-2.aspx


OK, thanks.

BTW, I've just seen them on Ebay for around £45

Phil Allison wrote:

"Dave Plowman ( Nutcase ) "

I've ordered a SM 58, will be interesting to compare.

The SM 58 is one of the most over-rated mics ever.

** On the contrary - the Shure SM58's good reputation for live vocal work
is well justified. Since the late 1960s, it has LITERALLY set the standard
for ALL vocal mics in both appearance and sound quality to follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shure_SM58

Its only virtues are robustness and reasonable noise cancellation.

** You are allowed to have that opinion

- but it is the view of a 100% ****ing idiot.

Certainly not sound quality.

** That so many folk PREFER the results given by the SM58 and many other
mics that are essentially clones of it, proves there is nothing wrong with
the design.

Certainly, there are some Shure mic haters out there - just like there
are
rabid racists, religious bigots and all kinds of ratbags and mental
defectives who try to foist their mad opinions on others.

Dave Plowman is a first class example of the above.

His kind of congenital autism disorder is rampant in the UK

That is what the whole country is totally and permanently ****ed and every
one of its residents hated world wide.

..... Phil

How ironic Phil.....

Patrick Turner.