Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article , Geoff Mackenzie
wrote:


Wasn't there a turntable in the seventies which dispensed with the
stylus altogether, using instead some sort of optical pickup? Called
the Finial, or something like that. Got reinvented and asked for more
funding every six months or so. IIRC only one escaped and was reviewed
in HFN - worked reasonably well, but was completely defeated by surface
pops which came out at ear-shattering levels.

IIRC a version was finally brought to market and sold (at a high price) to
libraries and archives where they wanted to transcribe historic relics with
zero risk of mechanical damage. I think it did require a combination of
ultra-clean surfaces and for the output to be edited to remove the
remaining clicks, etc.

Along the same lines I do have a book that recounts how some of the early
Baird experimental *video* recordings onto '78s' were recovered by optical
scanning and then reprocessing of the data to recover images. The results
showed that they system did work - provided original users were prepared to
wait decades until methods like the above had been developed for replay.
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Patrick James
wrote:


The LP does not behave like a diaphram on the platter for the very
simple reason that for an LP to behave like a diaphram it would need
to be *secured* at the edge, like a drum skin for example.

Really? Is a loudspeaker cone 'secured' at the edge? Hint. It's not - if
anything it's secured by the spider in the middle. But works very
effectively as a microphone. In just the same sort of way as a pickup
does on a poorly supported disc.

The problem does seem to be that Patrick has simply defined the word
'diaphragm' simply so he can say that an LP isn't one. Thus evading the
more significant point that the LP mounted a la the Transcriptor can
indeed
vibrate in response to acoustic energy.


It has yet to be proved to me (at least) that this has any audible effect at
'normal' (even 'normal' to 'quite loud') listening levels, irrespective of
any wriggly lines on any graphs that anyone might want to wave about.


I have a feeling that the highly regarded audio maker, Amstrad, also made
a
look-alike with multiple point support for the LP. They came up with a
hilarious technogabble description of it IIRC. I'll see if I can find a
copy of the advert I have in mind as it was very funny. This was about the
time Alan Sugar was apparently telling his 'engineers' that if other
makers
had four knobs on their amp, he had to have five or six. Didn't matter
what
they did, just more knobs. :-)


'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of consumer
electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would interest me;
b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


big snip


Erm. I have the feeling that the Linn was also based on another deck whose
name is now largely forgotten. I seem to recall some patent arguments
about
this which only stopped when the (probable) real inventor died. There were
some interesting reports on this some years later by Barry Fox IIRC.


I think this is the one:

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/olde...turntable.html



Anyway I won't be posting again in this thread so please do enjoy
music no matter what the medium! -- Patrick

Good luck, I'm sure you will find a buyer.


While the credit card statements with the holiday spending on are still
rolling in? Hmm, he might not or at least not to the level he was probably
hoping and 'collect only' from the outskirts of Timbuktu is a *sure way* of
decimating your potential customer base!! :-)

Good luck anyway, Patrick - I'm watching the auction!

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Geoff Mackenzie" wrote in message
...

Not necessarily. Maybe he just wanted to focus on allowing the LP to
vibrate. However maybe his idea would have worked if only used by people
living in anechoic chambers. ;- ...oh hang on, bugger, the stylus
will
also generate vibrations. So no stylus contact either, I'm afraid, for
his
(alledged) idea to work.


Wasn't there a turntable in the seventies which dispensed with the stylus
altogether, using instead some sort of optical pickup? Called the Finial,
or something like that. Got reinvented and asked for more funding every
six months or so.
IIRC only one escaped and was reviewed in HFN - worked reasonably well,
but was completely defeated by surface pops which came out at
ear-shattering levels.



All of that would be curable, but what's the point when a transcription can
be cleaned up sufficiently well after recording from a normal setup?

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

My experience is that 'airborne FB' only occurs at volumes *way beyond*
even loud listening levels, so I've just checked with and without Tic
Tacs and find there's not a great deal in it 'volumewise' and it is way
up there past any setting I'm likely to use, but I'm quite surprised to
discover that a lid appears to do nothing to prevent FB and really only
alters the pitch - on my little Technics deck!

Not sure using small spacers on an ordinary turntable reproduces the
Transcriptor 'experience'. The distance between record and the reflecting
surface of the turntable will make a difference to the resonant frequency
- as can any covering on the turntable.


No, you would have to use a Transcriptor to get a genuine 'Transcriptor
experience'! My larking about with mints was a curiosity thing - never
intended as anything like a 'scientific experiment'!!



All I can say is being utterly amazed some 30 odd years ago that this
incredibly expensive device could be so useless at doing its job. As if
the designer had never used it to play an actual record.


I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't recall
the other components in the system....

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , UnsteadyKen
wrote:


I pulled another one out, (The Strawbs - Deep Cuts, Keith)


:-)

So, based on a sample of two I think we can conclude that LP records are
vaguely circular, have a hole near the middle and some appear to made
from recycled bin liners.

And most are not flat.


Sums it all up quite well, I'd say....



I reached the above conclusions some decades ago. :-) In fact, I went on
to decide that many of the LPs I bought had to be returned for a
replacement due to problems like audibly off-center holes, warps, and
assorted swishes, clicks, etc. One had a label so far off center that it
was pressed into the grooves.


This country had it sodding tough after the war and mass production of
anything had it moments of variability - the trick was to push through the
difficulties, make the best of what was often a less than perfect job and
forge ahead....

....'til that stupid bitch Maggie Thatcher came along and conned morons/chavs
into thinking they were too special to get their hands dirty, while
enslaving them to a lifetime of debt at the same time....

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Wasn't there a turntable in the seventies which dispensed with the
stylus altogether, using instead some sort of optical pickup? Called
the Finial, or something like that. Got reinvented and asked for
more funding every six months or so. IIRC only one escaped and was
reviewed in HFN - worked reasonably well, but was completely defeated
by surface pops which came out at ear-shattering levels.



All of that would be curable, but what's the point when a transcription
can be cleaned up sufficiently well after recording from a normal setup?

What's the point when a CD from the master does it all so much better?

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

On 2009-09-11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article 4aaa1236.6036468@localhost, Don Pearce
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:58:20 +0100, Malcolm Lee
wrote:

On 2009-09-11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Malcolm Lee
wrote:


BTW How flat was your LP when unsupported? Did you turn it over and
repeat the measurement? That seems like an obvious check for the
effects of the LP being inherently 'dished' by a small amount.

Yes, I measured both sides and averaged the droop.


Do bear in mind when measuring that the droop continues to increase for
quite some time. If you measure straight away, it will be an
under-measurement.

It occurs to me that, statistically, a simpler test might be useful. This
is simply to weigh each LP and note if the values change with year of
manufacture, etc. It won't allow for deliberately shaped discs, nor changes
in density or stiffness. But it would avoid the difficulty of trying to
allow for creep, departures from inherent flatness, etc, that can affect
measurements like the above.

That said, I'm not personally rushing to do any of this. :-) I rarely
bother with LPs these days. But I am interested in results people get.

Slainte,

Jim


I haven't got an accurate weighing machine but I do have a
micrometer. Given that an LPs thickness should correlate pretty well
with the square root of its weight it should amount to roughly the same
thing.

If you are really interested I can dig out a few "random" albums from
each decade from the 60's to the present and do the measurements. I'll
list album title, thickness (*), date of pressing, label and country of
origin (where known). Let me know.

Malcolm

* (measured about 1cm in from the edge avoiding the edge "lip")

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:38:03 +0100, Malcolm Lee
wrote:

On 2009-09-11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article 4aaa1236.6036468@localhost, Don Pearce
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:58:20 +0100, Malcolm Lee
wrote:

On 2009-09-11, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Malcolm Lee
wrote:


BTW How flat was your LP when unsupported? Did you turn it over and
repeat the measurement? That seems like an obvious check for the
effects of the LP being inherently 'dished' by a small amount.

Yes, I measured both sides and averaged the droop.


Do bear in mind when measuring that the droop continues to increase for
quite some time. If you measure straight away, it will be an
under-measurement.

It occurs to me that, statistically, a simpler test might be useful. This
is simply to weigh each LP and note if the values change with year of
manufacture, etc. It won't allow for deliberately shaped discs, nor changes
in density or stiffness. But it would avoid the difficulty of trying to
allow for creep, departures from inherent flatness, etc, that can affect
measurements like the above.

That said, I'm not personally rushing to do any of this. :-) I rarely
bother with LPs these days. But I am interested in results people get.

Slainte,

Jim


I haven't got an accurate weighing machine but I do have a
micrometer. Given that an LPs thickness should correlate pretty well
with the square root of its weight it should amount to roughly the same
thing.

If you are really interested I can dig out a few "random" albums from
each decade from the 60's to the present and do the measurements. I'll
list album title, thickness (*), date of pressing, label and country of
origin (where known). Let me know.

Malcolm

* (measured about 1cm in from the edge avoiding the edge "lip")

No, not the square root - the relationship is linear.

d

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference on sale at UK
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Wasn't there a turntable in the seventies which dispensed with the
stylus altogether, using instead some sort of optical pickup? Called
the Finial, or something like that. Got reinvented and asked for
more funding every six months or so. IIRC only one escaped and was
reviewed in HFN - worked reasonably well, but was completely defeated
by surface pops which came out at ear-shattering levels.



All of that would be curable, but what's the point when a transcription
can be cleaned up sufficiently well after recording from a normal setup?

What's the point when a CD from the master does it all so much better?



Those laser machines were (are?) pitched at people like large, important
libraries who are in the business of archiving rare and precious discs for
posterity which presumably have no surviving master tape and no CD version
exists thereof, other than one taken directly from playing the vinyl (or
even 78s) which I understand happens from time to time; Mahalia Jackson's
early stuff being a good example.

Interestingly, the 'no contact' laser is supposed to be the important
feature and major appeal of these machines to the very same people (Library
of Congress?) who are supposed to have grabbed up all the remaining supplies
of the recently-disappeared Shure V15/5...??

(See: http://www.loc.gov/rr/record/matrices2.html for an idea of the size of
the operation - 3,500,000 recordings so far??)