cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

On 15/03/2010 17:27, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In a.com, Rob
wrote:
On 14/03/2010 11:32, Jim Lesurf wrote:



Microsoft has been dragged through the courts precisely because of
its restrictive behaviour, which has in turn influenced what a lot of
people learn and see. It's not right, but choice is fettered and it
takes a little bit more than you seem to suggest to pick an option.

I'd agree with the bulk of the above. But that is, I am afraid, the
reality. If people cannae be bothered then they will simply pick the
'popular' option. Again that is their choice. The question is
regarding if it is an *informed* choice, of course.


If someone, a student say, where you (used to) teach chose Linux to use
at their university, how would that pan out? They have a choice, it is
informed, but can they implement that choice?

I do still teach there (gave a lecture this afternoon)[1]. Some of the
students *do* choose to use Linux for their work and personal computing. As
do some members of staff. People run/use Windows, Macs, Linux, Solaris,
RISC OS etc, as they prefer. As you might expect, Linux is more common in
the physics and other science areas.

We also have clusters or villages of machines around for common use, and
these also run various OSs, etc. Most of these tend to be Windows or Macs
where our servers of main machines tend to be Solaris. But this all evolves
as suits those involved.

So I'm not quite sure what you are asking with respect to "how can
they...". The residences all have broadband sockets on our network and
they can connect their own machines fo whatever type. Ditto for the
offices, etc.

Fair enough - they have a genuine choice at the university, and that's
good. At our place, absolutely no chance. It's not that they can't
afford the machines - it's the support.

This is what I mean by 'explain fully' below. Your experience seems to
be that options are more or less unfettered. I am genuinely surprised
that such options are widely available where you work, live/learn etc.


It is the inertia that accompanies these options that I don't think you
explain fully.

Oh, I agree with that. Yes, because Windows is what people mostly see (and
may not know of the alternatives) then they often go for that as the
'default'. But a student here might have a Mac for their personal use, but
use Windows boxes or something else when they use one of the Uni-provided
'village' machines. And so on. In general no-one is bothered what type
someone else uses.


Why don't they just use a Mac at Uni?

I used 'popular' above deliberately as I've noted MicroSoft use that
term on more than one occasion. e.g. in this week's "Click" TV prog on
BBC News 24 where the M$ browser was said to be "popular" by their
droid. Yes it is, of course, in the same sense that "death" and
"taxes" are 'popular'... 8-]


Some of their stuff is quite good IMHO - Excel for example.

I don't argue with that. My point hasn't been that "All MicroSoft software
is rubbish". I have no worry that many people find it useful and suits them
OK.

In the end, education and understanding do take some effort, time,
etc. And we do find at times that big companies, etc, get into
dominating positions where they end up fogging the view people have of
alternatives. But as the maxim says, "If you think Education is
expensive - try ignorance!"


And if you think ignorance is expensive, you could do well to look at
university fees. What you're talking about now is gambling.

Life is a gamble. :-)


Never ends, does it :-)

Although personally I remain opposed to the idea of charging undergrads
fees in the UK. Note I work/live in Scotland, not England. The arrangements
are different here as we have a different education system to south of the
line. :-)


Indeed. wouldn't sit *too* smug though. The whole thing is a travesty.

As I think I've said more than once, of people cannae be bothered and
just take a default that is their choice, and the outcomes then
follow. Either they are happy with that or not. Their choice. All I
and others can do is point out that alternatives do exist. Up to
people to investigate or not as they choose.


Of course, and there are some very good reasons why people don't choose
options you put forward. I take it you agree with that? Or do you think
that, so far as you know, people are just too lazy (cf bothered
thesis)?/!

No. Some people are lazy, of course. Others simply don't know there are
alternatives. Others are comfortable with what they first used and don;'t
look around. That is their choice.

My concerns are just that the situation is biassed by a combination of
ignorance and a 'market' that is essentially rigged to make one OS and
software source seem to many as being 'a computer' and puts impediments in
the way of alternatives being offerred to people in shops on a fair basis.
In effect, if you walk into many UK computer shops or offices you just see
Windows and people regarding 'computer skilled' to mean "can use Word and
other standard MicroSoft apps". No sign of anything else.

We have a small 'computer shop' in town although we have thousands of
undergrads. When I looked in and asked they had no machines running Linux,
and no Macs. The default assumption here is not that 'apples' are the only
fruit... maybe a lemon instead. 8-]


Good form today ;-)

For me the problems are things like hardware makers who only sell models
'bundled with Windows' so various hardware choices mean you have to pay for
Windows as well even if you don't want it. And devices and cards where the
makers only provide drivers in a closed way for Windows. Add in shops and
offices that show no sign of anything else, and the result is
anti-competitive and restrictive of choice.


Of course, yes, so it's incumbent upon you and yours to point out that
Linux exists, and so on, and that's splendid of course. However, the
monopoly and lack of open standards has created a huge problem. That
doesn't make choosing MS a 'lazy' choice at all.



That depends on the application and circumstances. e.g. I don't want a
CPU that essentially demands a noisy fan if the box is to be for
playing music. The higher the power demand of the CPU, the more likely
you will end up needing a fan or extra hardware of some other kind.
And memory is like money. It doesn't matter *once* you have 'enough'.
:-)


Yes, I was talking about phones there - my iphone has a more powerful
processor (etc for all I know) than my ipod touch, but it really doesn't
make much real life difference except to battery life.

This SSD iMac is virtually silent most of the time - although all 4
processors at 100% for 20 minutes or so does cause one of the fans to
pick up. Typing now, the machine is using about half the electricity of
14" CRT monitor, and that's including the 27" screen. I think you can
have cake and eat it, if you have enough money.

Yes, if you have money and the ability to make an informed choice. If you'd
been given no sign that Macs existed... :-)

FWIW The new Acer laptop I bought a while ago has a 60 GB SSD instead of a
conventional HD. I can't be sure but I think it is quieter, faster, and
less prone to the fan starting as a result. But I just judge it by the
results. (Using Xubuntu+ROX in this case.)


That's likely. Very impressed with this SSD, have to say. Apparently the
read performance can deteriorate, but at the moment it's fine. Although
the HD on my netbook, Samsung NC10, is very quiet (as are most 2.5"
disks). Fan makes an occasional appearance, spoils things a bit.

I do use it some of the time as a sound radio iPlayer for the living room.
If I close down the lid so the screen goes off the batteries seem to last
about 4 hours in that kind of use. The fan may come on after about 25 mins
of that use from cold. TV iPlayer is more demanding but I don't use that
much.


Mac Mini is just fine for me. Far from silent, but pretty quiet. This
iMac is amazing considering what's packed in.

Given my druther's I'd love to be able to run RO native on such hardware,
though. 8-]


Had to look up druther, as I did neep the other day. You can dream :-)

Slainte

Jim

[1] Now an 'Honorary Reader' which sounds great until you realise that
'Honorary' means 'we won't pay you like we used to'. But it means I can
pick and choose what to do, or not, and has let me keep the office and
anechoic chamber. 8-]


We think up all manner of titles for our retirees to retain staff for
what is, here at least, cheap labour - £30 p/hour I think. And you'd be
lucky to get a place to stand.

The latest fad appears to be applying for a professorship. We fill out a
form and fulfil a few not too onerous conditions to have the
vanity/dubious honour.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote

If you edit up the longer or shorter, repeated, files and burn them to a
CD, then the CD can be played during the actual performance or rehearsal.

Well you could, but I don't see the point. I've used WMP for playout, make
up a "playlist" of all the effects needed, so they are listed on the RH side
of the screen, and then just click on the one you need when you get the cue.
Works very well and seems simple to me. But I only do this occasionally and
at my own expense, so I'm not interested in buying either hardware or
software specifically for this use.

David.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"David Looser" wrote in
message
"Arny Krueger" wrote

If you edit up the longer or shorter, repeated, files
and burn them to a CD, then the CD can be played during
the actual performance or rehearsal.

Well you could, but I don't see the point. I've used WMP
for playout, make up a "playlist" of all the effects
needed, so they are listed on the RH side of the screen,
and then just click on the one you need when you get the
cue. Works very well and seems simple to me. But I only
do this occasionally and at my own expense, so I'm not
interested in buying either hardware or software
specifically for this use.

You're describing a working methodology.

In some cases I've been tasked to insert SFX into a live performance without
a PC being available.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article , Rob
wrote:
On 15/03/2010 17:27, Jim Lesurf wrote:


I do still teach there (gave a lecture this afternoon)[1]. Some of the
students *do* choose to use Linux for their work and personal
computing. As do some members of staff. People run/use Windows, Macs,
Linux, Solaris, RISC OS etc, as they prefer. As you might expect,
Linux is more common in the physics and other science areas.

We also have clusters or villages of machines around for common use,
and these also run various OSs, etc. Most of these tend to be Windows
or Macs where our servers of main machines tend to be Solaris. But
this all evolves as suits those involved.

So I'm not quite sure what you are asking with respect to "how can
they...". The residences all have broadband sockets on our network
and they can connect their own machines fo whatever type. Ditto for
the offices, etc.

Fair enough - they have a genuine choice at the university, and that's
good. At our place, absolutely no chance. It's not that they can't
afford the machines - it's the support.

This is what I mean by 'explain fully' below. Your experience seems to
be that options are more or less unfettered. I am genuinely surprised
that such options are widely available where you work, live/learn etc.

Depends what I am writing about at any given time.

Yes, there is a wide choice available.

But, yes, MicroSoft and the behaviour of various parts of the computer biz
do mean that many people either find their choice is not 'free' and/or they
don't get to realise that there is a wider choice, etc.


It is the inertia that accompanies these options that I don't think
you explain fully.

Oh, I agree with that. Yes, because Windows is what people mostly see
(and may not know of the alternatives) then they often go for that as
the 'default'. But a student here might have a Mac for their personal
use, but use Windows boxes or something else when they use one of the
Uni-provided 'village' machines. And so on. In general no-one is
bothered what type someone else uses.


Why don't they just use a Mac at Uni?

FWIW Some years ago all the Univ villages for the undergrads were Macs. At
that time out comp lab people were mainly Mac-heads, with a few who had a
clue about Unix/Solaris. However other depts started putting in their own
Window boxes and made clear that the comp lab had to be more diverse in its
support and provision.

Undergrads and others can, in general, use what suits them. Most use
Windows, but others use Mac, Linux, or whatever. Up to them.


Although personally I remain opposed to the idea of charging
undergrads fees in the UK. Note I work/live in Scotland, not England.
The arrangements are different here as we have a different education
system to south of the line. :-)


Indeed. wouldn't sit *too* smug though. The whole thing is a travesty.

I agree. What I find particularly objectionable is that the introduction of
fees and the destruction of a grant was brought in by a generation of
polticians and civil servants who benefitted from it themselves. The UK now
has a *less* socially and educationally mobile population that it did a
couple of decades ago. All part of the modern myth that we are all
'customers' rather than citizens. Mind you that in the UK probably replaces
our all being 'subjects'. :-)


For me the problems are things like hardware makers who only sell
models 'bundled with Windows' so various hardware choices mean you
have to pay for Windows as well even if you don't want it. And devices
and cards where the makers only provide drivers in a closed way for
Windows. Add in shops and offices that show no sign of anything else,
and the result is anti-competitive and restrictive of choice.


Of course, yes, so it's incumbent upon you and yours to point out that
Linux exists, and so on, and that's splendid of course. However, the
monopoly and lack of open standards has created a huge problem. That
doesn't make choosing MS a 'lazy' choice at all.

Agreed. It may well be an 'ignorant' one of course. However we are all
ignorant about things until we learn about them. So that is as much a
criticism of the situation as the person. Unless of course alternatives
*have* been pointed out and they don't bother to check them at all.


Given my druther's I'd love to be able to run RO native on such
hardware, though. 8-]


Had to look up druther, as I did neep the other day. You can dream :-)

Well, I've been watching developments with BeagleBoard and the emulators,
etc.


[1] Now an 'Honorary Reader' which sounds great until you realise that
'Honorary' means 'we won't pay you like we used to'. But it means I
can pick and choose what to do, or not, and has let me keep the office
and anechoic chamber. 8-]


We think up all manner of titles for our retirees to retain staff for
what is, here at least, cheap labour - £30 p/hour I think. And you'd be
lucky to get a place to stand.

The latest fad appears to be applying for a professorship. We fill out a
form and fulfil a few not too onerous conditions to have the
vanity/dubious honour.

IIRC after I moved up here my old Uni (QMC as was) decided to call everyone
a 'professor' as they got fed up with explaining to Americans, etc, what
terms like 'Lecturer' and 'Reader' actually meant in the UK. No idea if
they persisted with this, though.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


Yes, there is a wide choice available.

And many available choices are so impractical that they are irrelevant to
most people's use.

But, yes, MicroSoft and the behaviour of various parts of
the computer biz do mean that many people either find
their choice is not 'free' and/or they don't get to
realise that there is a wider choice, etc.

Choice of many things is structured by the market such that choice is never
completely free.

I've been through several generations of this majority/minority OS thing.

First: Unix and VMS against MVS.
Then: OS/2 versus Windows 3.x and NT
Now: *nix versus NT which has been rebranded as Windows.

The least useful of the alternative OSs was OS/2. The most useful has been
*nix.

*nix has clearly chopped out a fairly giant universe of useful applications.

People make a mistake when they try to carry an OS beyond its inherent
domain. The application of computers is broad enough that just one OS can't
be applied universally, yet.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


Yes, there is a wide choice available.

And many available choices are so impractical that they are irrelevant
to most people's use.

Although in practice many individuals may well find that what others regard
as 'impractical' suits them very nicely. So the above only really works as
a sweeping generalisation. Not much of a guide for an individual with
individual preferences and requirements.

But, yes, MicroSoft and the behaviour of various parts of the computer
biz do mean that many people either find their choice is not 'free'
and/or they don't get to realise that there is a wider choice, etc.

Choice of many things is structured by the market such that choice is
never completely free.

Indeed. That is why a society forms Laws and other forms of social
agreement to prevent the lack of freedom from becoming an unreasonable
impediment, etc. The problem is that we do seem to have a situation (in the
UK at least as I can't comment about elsewhere) where people who have no
prior knowledge of the area may find no real signs of some of the
alternatives in many of the shops where 'computers' are for sale. And a
fair bit of the hardware is presented as only for Windows. As I have said,
my view is that the UK situation is anti-competitive. It also smells of a
cartel made up by some hardware makers and shops that limits the ability of
people to see any alternatives.

I've been through several generations of this majority/minority OS thing.

First: Unix and VMS against MVS. Then: OS/2 versus Windows 3.x and NT
Now: *nix versus NT which has been rebranded as Windows.

The least useful of the alternative OSs was OS/2. The most useful has
been *nix.

*nix has clearly chopped out a fairly giant universe of useful
applications.

I started with the ICL systems back circa 1970. I can't now recall the name
of the OS as it was so long ago! Since then I'm not sure how many systems
and OSs I've used. Includes PDPs, Cromemcos, machines by GEC. More
recently tended to be a mix of Solaris and RISC OS and latterly Linux
again.

People make a mistake when they try to carry an OS beyond its inherent
domain.

I'm not quite sure of what you would mean as the "inherent domain" of an
OS. That sounds more absolute that I'd think appropriate.

I'd tend to associate that more with the available user software that runs
on the OS and hardware. Problem here is that what is meant by 'OS' can be
sometimes blurred. Is Puppy Linux or Minix the same as Ubuntu or Solaris?
The answer might be either 'yes' or 'no' depending on how you want to work,
etc, and how versions evolve. Also depends on how the modular and flexible
parts of what becomes the 'OS' in any case might be put together.

Although I agree that some OSs are well developed for some specific kinds
of task. The obvious example is the general *nix design being aimed at
groups of people sharing machines, so being very useful for some roles in
the net.

The application of computers is broad enough that just one OS
can't be applied universally, yet.

To me that isn't so much a matter of the 'top down' view of "application of
computers". More a matter of each individual person having their own
requirements and preferences. So two people might do the same task using
different OS and software, but each will decide that way suits *them*
better than the other. However as the disscussion with Rob has illuminated,
the current UK retail setup doesn't exactly help punters get a clear view
of what the alternatives might be, or if they might prefer them.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"p.mc" wrote in message

Hi all

I'm new to this group and was hoping to get some sound

Snipped

Wow! that was fun.

I've always used mini disc and player for productions because I find it's
simple efficient and can be edited, named, re-ordered etc very simply.
The CD route was there as an option for actors who bring their own material
on CD, and also it's quite handy to underscore one track and have random sfx
over that when using a dual cd player, therefore no need for 2 MD players.
But I found that some tracks leaked a millisecond of the next track on
autocue and wondered if this was usual, as I have no great experience with
CD players for shows, apart from the odd pre-show music or announcements and
wondered whether that was typical.

I do have a laptop I could use for running a show, but I hadn't come accross
a decent program to load a playlist too with autopause functions. (Any
recomendations?)Although as stated earlier, you could use WMP for the
playlist but it doesn't autopause, so you'd have to add 5 or so sec silence
to the end of each sfx to give you time to cue up the next. Also taking your
eyes off the performance on quick succesion cues (especially visual cues)
can be drastic fiddling with a mouse or touchpad.

I have a large library of sfx on my PC ( and I don't think I've ever used
one without editing it though) inc all previously mentioned, using my
preferred software "Mixcraft". I also have Adobe Audition, but prefer
mixcraft. I have a Creative SB X-FI soundcard installed, which is more than
enough for my needs.

As I said in the first post I really only wanted advice on those 2 points;

1...How to remove the silence...Answer:..."Use Nero"
2...How to stop some tracks playing a millisecond of the next track just
before autopausing....Answer..."Track marks and burning software that
honors them."...Sorry I'm confused. Each track is seperate on the CD but the
millisecond leakage into the next track right on autopause/cue I would've
thought be the fault with the CD player, and not at the editing or burning
stage; could you please elaborate thanks?

Note!
ps
I know dual mp3 players and HDD tech would do the job, but I need to get the
most using CD media with this unit.

--


Regards
p.mc

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"p.mc" wrote in message


As I said in the first post I really only wanted advice
on those 2 points;

1...How to remove the silence...Answer:..."Use Nero"

So you are good with this now?

2...How to stop some tracks playing a millisecond of the
next track just before autopausing....Answer..."Track
marks and burning software that honors them."...Sorry I'm
confused. Each track is seperate on the CD but the
millisecond leakage into the next track right on
autopause/cue I would've thought be the fault with the CD
player, and not at the editing or burning stage; could
you please elaborate thanks?

Sounds to me like a problem with how the tracks are edited. Trim the tail
of the first track, and move what you trim off to the start of the second.
Easily doable with simple editing software such as Audacity.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"p.mc" wrote in message


As I said in the first post I really only wanted advice
on those 2 points;

1...How to remove the silence...Answer:..."Use Nero"

So you are good with this now?

2...How to stop some tracks playing a millisecond of the
next track just before autopausing....Answer..."Track
marks and burning software that honors them."...Sorry I'm
confused. Each track is seperate on the CD but the
millisecond leakage into the next track right on
autopause/cue I would've thought be the fault with the CD
player, and not at the editing or burning stage; could
you please elaborate thanks?

Sounds to me like a problem with how the tracks are edited. Trim the tail
of the first track, and move what you trim off to the start of the second.
Easily doable with simple editing software such as Audacity.


Hi Amy

Yes point 1 is sorted, "No pause between tracks" checked. I suppose the
emphasis is "between tracks", whereas I took the "No pause" to be.
Still on point 2 though. I wouldn't want to put too much of the tail onto
the start of the next track as I like them to be instant afer pressing play.
Also I've noticed it will usually leak after a short track approx 3 secs.
Maybe the answer is to make tracks a minimal of 5 secs!

I could give it a try when I get round to setting up my set up.

--


Regards
p.mc

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article , p.mc wrote:

Still on point 2 though. I wouldn't want to put too much of the tail
onto the start of the next track as I like them to be instant afer
pressing play. Also I've noticed it will usually leak after a short
track approx 3 secs. Maybe the answer is to make tracks a minimal of 5
secs!

IIRC The Audio CD spec does specify a minimum duration for a track. I can't
recall the value but I think it is a few seconds. I'd assume that in
general you'd not have any operational problems with simply padding the
last part of 5 seconds to make that the minimum?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html