cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"p.mc" wrote in message

Hi all

I'm new to this group and was hoping to get some sound
advice from here.
I've been with an amatuer theatre for the last few years
providing bespoke sfx for their productions. I've been
using minidisc format for most of the time untill
recentley I invested in a dual cd player
http://www.numark.com/cdn35

What you really should have done is moved into the 21st century, and
started using a computer as your delivery platform for SFX.

But, the CD format is not all that bad.

The most annoying thing I found was;

1...How to remove the silence bit and still have the unit
autopause. (it's annoying when you have some cues
pretty close together, but it adds 2 to 5 secs before next track can
play)

+1 to all the other people who pointed out that you need to learn how to
do digital audio editing.

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science or all of the hardware at Cape
Canaveral. In fact all you need is:

(1) Just about any modern PC, even a laptop.

(2) Hardware and software that will allow you to load audio from the
various delivery sources that you use.
(a) The internet
(b) CDs
(i) EAC freeware for pulling digital audio files off of audio CDs
(ii) Audacity freeware is a good servicable audio editor for your
purposes

(c) DVDs
(i) FFMPEG and other freeware video editing software
(ii) Adobe Premiere Elements

(3) Hardware and software for re-encoding your finished work into a
delivery format.
(i) Nero

2...How to stop some tracks playing a millisecond of the
neaxt track just before autopausing.

Track marks and burning software that honors them.

I use mixcraft to edit and produce my sfx, which adds
approx 3 sec silence to the end of the saved file, and CD
burning software adds approx 2 sec silence to the
beggining of a track.

It doesn't have to be that way. Nero CD burning software for example has
an option for not inserting the 2 second silence.

Is there a workaround, or can these points be resolved
with CD media?

I know dual mp3 players and HDD tech would do the job,
but I need to get the most using CD media with this unit.

I did that for a number of years before I moved on.

The superset of what you are doing is basically the same thing but also
with video. I've been doing that for the past 3 years at church. But, I
still remember the audio-only days.

Professional SFX libraries, Hollywood Edge, Sound Ideas,
De Wolfe etc etc, issue material on CD, so professional
installations still use accurately cueable CD players to spin
these effects in on the fly.

So much for Arny "moving on" :-)

But for the OP's use, SFX from something like CEP (Audition)
would be ideal. You can place visible markers accurately in the
sequencer, and then cue to them with pinpoint accuracy.
Burning to CD would seem unneccessary in this instance.
If you work from a CD library, the required tracks could be
extracted straight into the CEP.

Iain

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"p.mc" wrote in message
...

A lot of actors use there ipods for sfx lately and you can get a unit
that docks two ipods and has play,pause and autopause functions, anyway
ignore that, thats for another day.


I used to do what you are doing now 30 years ago, using reel-to-reel tape,
with each effect cut out and assembled in order, linked by pieces of
coloured leader tape to mark the cue positions. *Anything* you use these
days has to be an improvement on that!

Yes. I have done that too. Sometimes just with three bits of editing tape
as markers if the tape was too good to be cut:-)

But you could line the marks up woith say the erase head, and get
pretty accurate with the playing in with a little practice.

I can also remember the days in the late 60s early 70s
when library music, used in TV docs was supplied on vinyl
78s course fixed-pitch groove, so that they could be spun
in accurately from a turntable on cue. A pal of mine, a
sound assistant at Levers Rich Studios in Wardour Street,
was a master at this. They had four Garrard 301, he used to
set up and pre cue as the mix progressed.

Iain

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"tony sayer" wrote


An external preferably with balanced outputs.. a much better bet!...
--
Balanced outputs are better certainly, but how many external soundcards
have balanced outputs?

EM-U 1212M for a start.
http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=9872


That's not an external card, it's an internal one. You will note that to
Tony it's being an *external* card that is critical, having balanced outputs
is just a "for preference".

In any case you missed the point. I wasn't saying there are NO sound cards
with balanced outputs, I was saying there weren't many. Giving an example of
one means nothing.

David.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"p.mc" wrote in message
...

A lot of actors use there ipods for sfx lately and you can get a unit
that docks two ipods and has play,pause and autopause functions, anyway
ignore that, thats for another day.


I used to do what you are doing now 30 years ago, using reel-to-reel
tape,
with each effect cut out and assembled in order, linked by pieces of
coloured leader tape to mark the cue positions. *Anything* you use these
days has to be an improvement on that!

Yes. I have done that too. Sometimes just with three bits of editing tape
as markers if the tape was too good to be cut:-)

But you could line the marks up woith say the erase head, and get
pretty accurate with the playing in with a little practice.

Great, until in rehearsal the director says, "can we take it again from the
top of page 12" and you suddenly need to cue up 3 cues back. Or worse,
during a performance when an actor jumps ahead and you need to play the next
cue but one with almost no notice.:-(

David.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Iain Churches" wrote

Professional SFX libraries, Hollywood Edge, Sound Ideas,
De Wolfe etc etc, issue material on CD, so professional
installations still use accurately cueable CD players to spin
these effects in on the fly.


In my experience with amateur dramatics SFXs as supplied were rarely
suitable without some sort of editing, to make them longer or shorter,
repeat a certain number of times etc. So whilst CD is a perfectly
satisfactory medium for distribution and storage of effects, I question it's
suitability for playout. What do you mean by "professional installations"?,
which "profession"?

David.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:



I think CEP is perfect for the whole application, recording,editing and
play back of SFX. You can set labelled markers,. and also see the
envelope of the effect that is coming up, to make gain change if
required. The sequencer will skip from marker to marker instantly as
required. You can zoom to event level or keep the whole sequence in
view.

Perfect, and simple too.

Seems neither 'perfect' nor 'simple' to me when the task comes to just
playing the sfx files on cue. Too many options for an 'Oops!' moment at
that point.

Makes sense to use flexible editing software, etc, to prepare the sfx
files. But if it were me waiting anxiously for cues in the dark wings of a
performance I'd prefer a much simpler way to play them on cue.

To me it makes more sense to distinguish between preparing the content and
delivering it. I write all my lecture notes, etc, using a computer and
various items of software. But I don't take any of them into the (lecture)
theatre.

But of course we are all free to make our own mistakes in our own preferred
ways. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , David Looser
wrote:
"tony sayer" wrote


I do see quite a few sound cards both good and not so good....

Even the not so good sound cards are quite good enough for this purpose.

However the distinction between yourself and Tony in this specific case is
that he worked on the systems he is talking about whereas you are
theorising as a generalisation about "not so good sound cards".

I take the point, though Tony didn't say when he first mentioned these
systems that he had been asked to sort out the noises, merely that he'd
heard them. Since he has now stated that he was asked to sort them out I'd
be interested to hear whether he succeeded in sorting them out, and, if so,
what steps he took to do so.

If I am not generalising just from theory, but also my own experience. Tony
appears to be generalising from one case so I'm not sure that the
distinction is as clear as you suggest.

"'Umm" is now't to do with "computer noises" and needs to be cured by
good old-fashioned analogue audio engineering.


With respect David .. Cobblers...

So are you denying that hum is an analogue domain problem?

Unfortunately Tony's orginal wording has been snipped. That said


On 13 Mar in uk.rec.audio, tony sayer wrote:

Well David .. Two plays I saw over the lest few months were blighted one
very badly by computer generated noises.


Note the phrase "computer generated". I take that to mean the hum was
sourced from or caused by the computer system. Not a "denial" that "hum is
an analogue domain problem". Distinction between symptom and causal
mechanism.

No idea about the specific systems Tony actually worked with. However I've
certainly encountered a situation where the analogue output of a computer
generated unwanted noises on its analogue output that were due to its
internal psu or wiring - even when just listened to via headphones. So I
can't at present see any reason to doubt his practical experience simply
on
the basis of a general theory.

Would you describe those noises as "hum"? I wouldn't.

As you are no doubt well aware it's possible to detect background noise far
more easily listening on headphones than on speakers. I'm not disputing that
some computer sound cards, particularly integrated audio on laptops, create
noises that can be readily detected on headphones, or even on speakers in a
quiet room. But a theatre is not a quiet room, my point of disagreement is
whether any computer sound card (except possibly a faulty one) creates
unwanted noises so loud as to cause a problem in the context of this thread,
ie. a SFX sound system used with a stage performance.

David.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
I can also remember the days in the late 60s early 70s
when library music, used in TV docs was supplied on vinyl
78s course fixed-pitch groove, so that they could be spun
in accurately from a turntable on cue. A pal of mine, a
sound assistant at Levers Rich Studios in Wardour Street,
was a master at this. They had four Garrard 301, he used to
set up and pre cue as the mix progressed.

BBC designed drop start turntables could do this with any record. Not a
difficult skill to master. What was, was playing in an entire program off
discs where you had to do changeovers in the middle of it.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Programs are usually written to appeal to those who think they need all
the bells and whistles - even although they never use them.


How True.

Even Studer fell into this trap when they lauched their
Dyaxis DAW, which tried to be all things to all people.
They had thought about audio post, music editing, recording,
radio, TV, theatre, everything. The user interface became so
complex that it was incredibly difficult to use, with many
alternative keystrokes suggested by beta testers from different
sectors of the industry, all of whom had a different idea of how
things should be done.

In hind sight, it would have been better to have made
separate, slimmer versions of the software tailored to each
application. But Studer was too late by this time, and
Pro Tools became the standard.

Just the point I was making. If you accept MiniDisc was satisfactory for a
particular use, a prog which offered those facilities and not much more
might be very suitable for amateur theatricals. Without being daunting at
first look.

Other thing often overlooked is something like a MiniDisc or two could
well be left unattended backstage. A nice new laptop maybe not...

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Professional SFX libraries, Hollywood Edge, Sound Ideas,
De Wolfe etc etc, issue material on CD, so professional
installations still use accurately cueable CD players to spin
these effects in on the fly.

These are only building blocks for your own SFX list. You'd hardly ever
use them direct. You'd compile the wanted ones on to your own medium - no
matter what that was. The last thing you need is swapping CDs etc
unnecessarily.

BTW - you missed out the BBC library. Far, far, better than any of the
above for UK use.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.