cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"David Looser" wrote in
message ...
"Don Pearce" wrote

Probably the best thing you could do is move everything
into a more conducive environment for editing. Copy
your CD into a PC, then use virtually any DAW software
to perform all the manipulation you want. You can then
burn back to CD with any gaps (or no gaps) that you
want. You may want to release the final versions as MP3, but
don't let that format become a part of the production
process; you lose quality at every stage and it isn't
recoverable.

Actually re-reading the OP's post I think maybe his *is*
using a PC for editing. He talks about using "mixcraft"
and burning to CD. But these apparently add 3 seconds
and 2 seconds of silence respectively to the ends of the
files. Clearly he is using the wrong software. I use
CoolEdit to create and Nero to burn, neither necessarily
adds any silence.

Amen, brother! I use those very same tools for the very same purpose and
obtain exactly what I want.

The only thing I can add is that while I continue to do this with audio,
we've upped the ante at church, and do just about everything as video.


But I also wonder why he wants to burn to CD at all.
Direct playback from a lap-top seems to me to be far and
away the easiest and most satisfactory way of playing
out SFX during a performance. For the price he paid for
his dual CD player he could have bought a suitable
laptop.

Again, Amen.

A good CD player will cue and hold cue accurately, but not so with DVD
players. It was scripting video that forced us into using a PC.

There may be production grade DVD players that cue and hold cue, but for the
same money or less you can get a PC and do so much more with it.

We script our audio and video files using PowerPoint or similar software
that is more tailored for the needs of churches.

Yes. He needs a "park on a sixpence" player, with a rotary
cue control if he wants to play from CD.

One can cue well if one makes effective use of trackmarks or a collection of
separate files running under an A/V scripting program like Powerpoint.

As you say, playing out from a laptop with visual cueing would be
much better.

Exactly. It is what modern AV presenters do, whether corporate, artistic, or
evangelical. In the evangelical church we notice that the traditional and
liturgical churches are generally technically challenged.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message


On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:38:35 -0000, "p.mc"
wrote:

I've been with an amatuer theatre for the last few years
providing bespoke sfx for their productions. I've been
using minidisc format for most of the time untill
recentley I invested in a dual cd player

That seems a step backwards for your requirements! Most
things can be made to work, but using CD makes the job
harder.

One can get sinmply tired of preparing burn lists, burning, and finalizing
CDs. You make one mistake or need to add or change one file and you have to
burn another CD. CDs are bulky and fragile by modern standards. It is a
very retro thing to do in the days of inexpensive but effective digital
players (examples: Sansa Fuze, Clip) and flash drives.

I see why you're looking for a replacement for minidisc -
this most useful format is unfortunately becoming rapidly
unsupported. But I'm not sure the answer is CD.

I've seen this sort of thing done with even just $49 portable music players.
It can be a great way to cue and run SFX.

The best over all tool is a PC. It can be very effective for both
development and presentation of recorded media.

The key to success is to do your homework and use a good digital audio
editor (Audacity is more than enough) to prepare the media. It's far easier
and faster to load a flash drive or a portable music player, than to burn a
CD.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article , David Looser
wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote

Probably the best thing you could do is move everything into a more
conducive environment for editing. Copy your CD into a PC, then use
virtually any DAW software to perform all the manipulation you want.
You can then burn back to CD with any gaps (or no gaps) that you want.

You may want to release the final versions as MP3, but don't let that
format become a part of the production process; you lose quality at
every stage and it isn't recoverable.


Actually re-reading the OP's post I think maybe his *is* using a PC for
editing. He talks about using "mixcraft" and burning to CD. But these
apparently add 3 seconds and 2 seconds of silence respectively to the
ends of the files. Clearly he is using the wrong software. I use
CoolEdit to create and Nero to burn, neither necessarily adds any
silence.

I could not tell if he was saying either

A) That the CD tracks have silences added. e.g. were perhaps created by a
method like 'Track at Once' rather then 'Disc at Once'.

or

B) The player takes a few seconds to start playing a track (and this
delay is variable).

or maybe both.

As others, my reaction is to use a small computer for playing (and
editing). The alternative might be a solid state recorder as they can have
essentially instant play. Matter of which is more convenient for him.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

Apologies for my Subject line adding confusion, but yes I do use the pc with
software "Mixcraft 4.1" to multi track and edit my sound files, Originally,
after mixing down my sfx, I would record it to minidisc, and as you know
this is recorded in real time which takes up a lot of time. But also
sometimes our theatre group would have 10 min short plays and the actors
would bring there own cds, so that is why I got the dual cd player as I
thought it would be good to have the two outputs in one unit, especially for
underscoring a part whilst adding random effects over that...ie (battlefield
underscore/random explosions).whereas before I'd have to take 2 minidisc
players. But as you have mentioned it is a step backward, but I thought if I
could crack the 2 annoyances then I'd be happy to carry on with the dual CD
option, which also has the added bonus of recording the multiple sfx in far
quicker time. Also every theatre will have a cd player for you to use.

I was also burning my sfx using WMP, but I do have Nero so I could remove
the silence but I thought that would make the cd continuos and the auto
pause function wouldn't work!

As we don't have a building with our theatre group I have to bring along my
equiptment to some venues and I've never had someone bring me there sfx on
minidisc so I thought if I could use cds, also it would save me using and
carrying at least the MD player. I suppose I could use my laptop with the
sfx files on, with the added bonus of a cd opt drive for the actors cds.
***Some info on auto cue software would be appreciated also***. A lot of
actors use there ipods for sfx lately and you can get a unit that docks two
ipods and has play,pause and autopause functions, anyway ignore that, thats
for another day.

Think I'll have a look at cool edit also and do some test cds.


--


Regards
p.mc


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"p.mc" wrote in message

Hi all

I'm new to this group and was hoping to get some sound
advice from here.
I've been with an amatuer theatre for the last few years
providing bespoke sfx for their productions. I've been
using minidisc format for most of the time untill
recentley I invested in a dual cd player
http://www.numark.com/cdn35

What you really should have done is moved into the 21st century, and
started using a computer as your delivery platform for SFX.

But, the CD format is not all that bad.

The most annoying thing I found was;

1...How to remove the silence bit and still have the unit
autopause. (it's annoying when you have some cues
pretty close together, but it adds 2 to 5 secs before next track can
play)

+1 to all the other people who pointed out that you need to learn how to
do digital audio editing.

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science or all of the hardware at Cape
Canaveral. In fact all you need is:

(1) Just about any modern PC, even a laptop.

(2) Hardware and software that will allow you to load audio from the
various delivery sources that you use.
(a) The internet
(b) CDs
(i) EAC freeware for pulling digital audio files off of audio CDs
(ii) Audacity freeware is a good servicable audio editor for your
purposes

(c) DVDs
(i) FFMPEG and other freeware video editing software
(ii) Adobe Premiere Elements

(3) Hardware and software for re-encoding your finished work into a
delivery format.
(i) Nero

2...How to stop some tracks playing a millisecond of the
neaxt track just before autopausing.

Track marks and burning software that honors them.

I use mixcraft to edit and produce my sfx, which adds
approx 3 sec silence to the end of the saved file, and CD
burning software adds approx 2 sec silence to the
beggining of a track.

It doesn't have to be that way. Nero CD burning software for example has
an option for not inserting the 2 second silence.

Is there a workaround, or can these points be resolved
with CD media?

I know dual mp3 players and HDD tech would do the job,
but I need to get the most using CD media with this unit.

I did that for a number of years before I moved on.

The superset of what you are doing is basically the same thing but also
with video. I've been doing that for the past 3 years at church. But, I
still remember the audio-only days.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"p.mc" wrote in message


Apologies for my Subject line adding confusion, but yes I
do use the pc with software "Mixcraft 4.1" to multi track
and edit my sound files,

Mixcraft looks good on paper. Unless there was some compelling reason, I'd
continue to use it.

http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/index.htm

Originally, after mixing down my
sfx, I would record it to minidisc, and as you know this
is recorded in real time which takes up a lot of time.

I've never actually subjected myself to this kind of abuse in recent times.

But also sometimes our theatre group would have 10 min
short plays and the actors would bring there own cds, so
that is why I got the dual cd player as I thought it
would be good to have the two outputs in one unit,
especially for underscoring a part whilst adding random
effects over that...ie (battlefield underscore/random
explosions).whereas before I'd have to take 2 minidisc
players. But as you have mentioned it is a step backward,
but I thought if I could crack the 2 annoyances then I'd
be happy to carry on with the dual CD option, which also
has the added bonus of recording the multiple sfx in far
quicker time. Also every theatre will have a cd player
for you to use.

I was also burning my sfx using WMP, but I do have Nero
so I could remove the silence but I thought that would
make the cd continuos and the auto pause function
wouldn't work!

No, if you remove the 2 second silences, there are still track breaks. Any
auto pause feature your CD player has would continue to work.

As we don't have a building with our theatre group I have
to bring along my equiptment to some venues and I've
never had someone bring me there sfx on minidisc so I
thought if I could use cds, also it would save me using
and carrying at least the MD player. I suppose I could
use my laptop with the sfx files on, with the added bonus
of a cd opt drive for the actors cds.

If you run the editing software on said laptop, then you are in a very
flexible situation.

***Some info on
auto cue software would be appreciated also***.

I mentioned PowerPoint, which is very common and even exists in freeware
"work alike" versions.

A lot of
actors use there ipods for sfx lately and you can get a
unit that docks two ipods and has play,pause and
autopause functions, anyway ignore that, thats for
another day.

I'd never go there if I could plug the iPods up to my PC and download the
files from the iPods to the PC.

Think I'll have a look at cool edit also and do some test
cds.

Cool Edit is a bit of a red herring as it has been off the market for about
5 years. It was bought by Adobe and is now known as Audtion.

Some of us use it and adore it but we can't tell you where to buy what we
have. I used Cool Edit Pro 2.1 with the CD burning beta update which has
outstanding work flow. But, there's no place to buy it!

If you use EAC to convert CDs to digital files, and Nero to burn digital
files back onto CDs, you pretty well duplicate what we can get out of CEP
2.1 using the audio editing software that you already have.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"p.mc" wrote in message
...

A lot of actors use there ipods for sfx lately and you can get a unit that
docks two ipods and has play,pause and autopause functions, anyway ignore
that, thats for another day.


I used to do what you are doing now 30 years ago, using reel-to-reel tape,
with each effect cut out and assembled in order, linked by pieces of
coloured leader tape to mark the cue positions. *Anything* you use these
days has to be an improvement on that!

David.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article ,
p.mc wrote:
But also sometimes our theatre group would have 10 min short plays and
the actors would bring there own cds, so that is why I got the dual cd
player as I thought it would be good to have the two outputs in one
unit, especially for underscoring a part whilst adding random effects
over that...ie (battlefield underscore/random explosions).whereas
before I'd have to take 2 minidisc players. But as you have mentioned
it is a step backward, but I thought if I could crack the 2 annoyances
then I'd be happy to carry on with the dual CD option, which also has
the added bonus of recording the multiple sfx in far quicker time. Also
every theatre will have a cd player for you to use.

Might be worth investigating CD players designed for this sort of job. Not
sure if they can be bought at a reasonable price, though.

I'm not so sure about using a laptop for this sort of thing. I have a 360
Systems Instant Replay which is so much nicer - having a dedicated
keyboard etc makes it a joy to use.

--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"p.mc" wrote in message



***Some info on auto cue software would be appreciated also***.

I mentioned PowerPoint, which is very common and even exists in freeware
"work alike" versions.

I don't know anything about PowerPoint but that may be a sledgehammer to
crack a nut. :-) However I'd expect it to be trivial with a Linux
machine to write a simple app (program) that plays files in a
user-controlled way on cue. I'd hope the same was true with a Windows box
but can't say. I'd also assume someone has already done this. Have they
not?

An advantage of a 'PC' based system is you can easily use a variety of file
types, so some sfx could be mp3, others LPCM from audio CDs, etc. Should
not matter to the application playing them.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article
, Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"p.mc" wrote in message


***Some info on auto cue software would be appreciated
also***.

I mentioned PowerPoint, which is very common and even
exists in freeware "work alike" versions.

I don't know anything about PowerPoint but that may be a
sledgehammer to crack a nut. :-)

PPT is a pretty big sledgehammer even in its freeware versions. PPT is also
endemic in the USA. Virtually every school kid in the USA is taught how to
make PPT presentations, XLS spread sheets and Word documents. An amazing
percentage of them can actually do it! Again, there are freeware versions
of all of these programs. So, its a free, easy-to-use sledgehammer.

However I'd expect it
to be trivial with a Linux machine to write a simple app
(program) that plays files in a user-controlled way on
cue. I'd hope the same was true with a Windows box but
can't say. I'd also assume someone has already done this.
Have they not?

Why would I care?

Go to the trouble of writing a program just to run a presentation?

???????????????

An advantage of a 'PC' based system is you can easily use
a variety of file types, so some sfx could be mp3, others
LPCM from audio CDs, etc. Should not matter to the
application playing them.

PPT handles a wide variety of A/V file types.

cd recordings v's minidisc recordings
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

I'm not so sure about using a laptop for this sort of thing.

A laptop running WMP is far more flexible and easy to use than any CD
player. A quicker response too.

I have a 360
Systems Instant Replay which is so much nicer - having a dedicated
keyboard etc makes it a joy to use.

A laptop has a dedicated keyboard!

David.