"JNugent" wrote

I don't have much experience with digital tape. I do have a
nowadays-unused DCC machine (and about four DCC cassettes) but never owned
a DAT recorder. I do have a digital tape video-cam, but can't say that
I've either used it much or noticed any problems.


I had a fair bit of experience of RDAT back in the 1990s, and to be honest I
hated it. The tape was so thin that it would sometimes get tangled in the
works, tapes sometimes wouldn't play back on machines other than the one
they were recorded on, archived tapes would be found to have periodic
drop-out leading to the playback machine muting, etc. I much prefered the
Betamax-PCM recorders which we had used previously, but these days I'd steer
clear of any tape-based digital recording systems. Disc based, or better
still solid-state, recorders are far-far better IMO.

David.

In article ,
JNugent wrote:
I've not noticed an analogue tape which suffers from print through
being reduced in level. The top end may be slightly lower than when
recorded, though.

The effect from analogue print-through in audio is well-known. It is
manifested as a post-or pre-echo of the signal as the tape next to the
bit with the original signal passes the replay head. Pre-echo has been
known to transfer onto vinyl disc when transferred from a master tape
with high-level signal which has not been stored "tail out" (post-echo
being seen as better than pre-echo). You could hear a ghostly image of
the intro a second or so before the "proper" start.

Pro audio tapes should have a line up section before the start of the
actual programme material. This is a set of reference tones. That's why I
stated I'd not noticed a level drop on a tape suffering from print through.

It's also good practice to store tapes 'tail out'. This helps prevent
print through at the start of something. In theory, at least. However, you
can insert leader tape before the start of the mod - or between tracks.
This ensures as near silence as you can get.

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
The sort of level of print through means in practice digital systems
ignore it. Or that's my experience.

I'm not sure if digital magnetic recordings would print though in the
same way as analogue. This is because I suspect the magnetic material is
a different formulation and is driven into saturation. But the more you
examine the behaviour of magnetic recording and the magnetic properties
of the materials, the weirder they turn out to be, so I could easily be
wrong!
:-)

Indeed. But as I said I've used many of the pro digital audio formats
which record to tape and never experienced print through. So saying their
are (were) a bewildering variety of formats out there so I can't be sure
they were all equally as immune.

--
*My dog can lick anyone

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/12/2010 14:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
I've not noticed an analogue tape which suffers from print through
being reduced in level. The top end may be slightly lower than when
recorded, though.

The effect from analogue print-through in audio is well-known. It is
manifested as a post-or pre-echo of the signal as the tape next to the
bit with the original signal passes the replay head. Pre-echo has been
known to transfer onto vinyl disc when transferred from a master tape
with high-level signal which has not been stored "tail out" (post-echo
being seen as better than pre-echo). You could hear a ghostly image of
the intro a second or so before the "proper" start.

Pro audio tapes should have a line up section before the start of the
actual programme material. This is a set of reference tones. That's why I
stated I'd not noticed a level drop on a tape suffering from print through.

It's also good practice to store tapes 'tail out'. This helps prevent
print through at the start of something. In theory, at least. However, you
can insert leader tape before the start of the mod - or between tracks.
This ensures as near silence as you can get.

Gawd, this thread is dragging the depths of the memory...

I have a couple of half-track stereo masters on 1/4" tape (7" spools),
recorded late-seventies / early-eighties, which do have leader tape inserted
between the tracks. Four musical tracks on each spool, IIRC. I can't play
them. I got a friend with the correct equipment to transfer them to CD-DA for me.

In article ,
JNugent wrote:
It's also good practice to store tapes 'tail out'. This helps prevent
print through at the start of something. In theory, at least. However,
you can insert leader tape before the start of the mod - or between
tracks. This ensures as near silence as you can get.

Gawd, this thread is dragging the depths of the memory...

I used analogue tape for well over half my working life, and still love
it. Although not blind to its shortcomings.

I have a couple of half-track stereo masters on 1/4" tape (7" spools),
recorded late-seventies / early-eighties, which do have leader tape
inserted between the tracks. Four musical tracks on each spool, IIRC. I
can't play them. I got a friend with the correct equipment to transfer
them to CD-DA for me.

I can still cope with pretty well any 1/4" tape here at home, with the
exception of 30 ips.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/12/2010 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
It's also good practice to store tapes 'tail out'. This helps prevent
print through at the start of something. In theory, at least. However,
you can insert leader tape before the start of the mod - or between
tracks. This ensures as near silence as you can get.

Gawd, this thread is dragging the depths of the memory...

I used analogue tape for well over half my working life, and still love
it. Although not blind to its shortcomings.

I have a couple of half-track stereo masters on 1/4" tape (7" spools),
recorded late-seventies / early-eighties, which do have leader tape
inserted between the tracks. Four musical tracks on each spool, IIRC. I
can't play them. I got a friend with the correct equipment to transfer
them to CD-DA for me.

I can still cope with pretty well any 1/4" tape here at home, with the
exception of 30 ips.

You can just spin them into the computer at 15ips and adjust the sample rate
to convert them...!

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 19/12/2010 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I can still cope with pretty well any 1/4" tape here at home, with the
exception of 30 ips.

You can just spin them into the computer at 15ips and adjust the sample
rate to convert them...!

I've done much the same thing with some 1/4" tapes recorded at 1 7/8 ips,
playing them back at 3 3/4 ips and using CoolEdit to stretch the time scale.
The only problem is that you need to copy and convert before you can decide
whether the material is worth keeping!

David.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The biggest problem with digital is that it's all or nothing and when
DAB radio craps out it makes the most hideous noise followed by silence.

Dunno why DAB is so bad in this respect. FreeView audio just mutes if it
loses the signal. My DAB car radio switches to FM. ;-)


Looks like they could do something about it.

On 19/12/2010 20:22, David Looser wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 19/12/2010 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I can still cope with pretty well any 1/4" tape here at home, with the
exception of 30 ips.
You can just spin them into the computer at 15ips and adjust the sample
rate to convert them...!

I've done much the same thing with some 1/4" tapes recorded at 1 7/8 ips,
playing them back at 3 3/4 ips and using CoolEdit to stretch the time scale.
The only problem is that you need to copy and convert before you can decide
whether the material is worth keeping!

Frequency response?
Did tape use HF pre-emphasis and was it different for different tape speeds?
Dolby would complicate things even more.

--
Eiron.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
On 19/12/2010 20:22, David Looser wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 19/12/2010 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I can still cope with pretty well any 1/4" tape here at home, with the
exception of 30 ips.
You can just spin them into the computer at 15ips and adjust the sample
rate to convert them...!

I've done much the same thing with some 1/4" tapes recorded at 1 7/8 ips,
playing them back at 3 3/4 ips and using CoolEdit to stretch the time
scale. The only problem is that you need to copy and convert before you
can decide whether the material is worth keeping!

Frequency response?
Did tape use HF pre-emphasis and was it different for different tape
speeds?
Dolby would complicate things even more.


No Dolby, these tapes were recorded on a portable reel-to-reel recorder that
was manufactured long before Mr Dolby got into the noise-reduction business.
As for frequency response, yes there is a theoretical error in copying at
the wrong speed. In practice, though, it wasn't worth worrying about the
theoretical error, given all the other factors that affected the overall
frequency response. So I used Cool Edit to apply whatever modifications to
the FR that made the result sound as natural as possible to my ears.

Dacvid.