loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

Keith G wrote:
snip


Are you kidding? I've got hundreds of mono records I could play to
you which are a superb 'listen' and, FWIW, you would *never* guess
they weren't stereo! (40s, 50s and 60s Bands and Jazz mostly.)


I can agree with that strongly! If Keith hadn't told me it was mono, I
wouldn't have known!
--
MrBitsy

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:28:44 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:


mono can still reproduce reverberation from the back. in fact its not a
bad time to point out that if you are claiming a stereo pair can produce
rear sounds, then it would not be unreasonable to suggest that a mono
speaker ought to be able to image both left and right in the same manner. of
course it can, but I doubt anyone here would recommend it as a decent
listening experience.


Are you kidding? I've got hundreds of mono records I could play to you which
are a superb 'listen' and, FWIW, you would *never* guess they weren't
stereo! (40s, 50s and 60s Bands and Jazz mostly.)

'Phantom centre channel' mono (ie played on a stereo system with a pair of
speakers)


I was referring to a single speaker either right or left.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:28:44 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:


mono can still reproduce reverberation from the back. in fact its not a
bad time to point out that if you are claiming a stereo pair can produce
rear sounds, then it would not be unreasonable to suggest that a mono
speaker ought to be able to image both left and right in the same manner. of
course it can, but I doubt anyone here would recommend it as a decent
listening experience.


Are you kidding? I've got hundreds of mono records I could play to you which
are a superb 'listen' and, FWIW, you would *never* guess they weren't
stereo! (40s, 50s and 60s Bands and Jazz mostly.)

'Phantom centre channel' mono (ie played on a stereo system with a pair of
speakers)


I was referring to a single speaker either right or left.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:47:25 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

Are you kidding? I've got hundreds of mono records I could play to
you which are a superb 'listen' and, FWIW, you would *never* guess
they weren't stereo! (40s, 50s and 60s Bands and Jazz mostly.)


I can agree with that strongly! If Keith hadn't told me it was mono, I
wouldn't have known!

I guess my point got lost here...

what I was getting at is, in the same vein as people are arguing that a stereo pair can image behind you from their front L+R positions, using tricks involving the rooms acoustics, a mono speaker on (say) the left, ought to be able to image on the right.

Whilst this is possible, I doubt anyone would recommend it as a way of listening. one centre speaker or a mono pair, but not one off to one side.

front/rear stereo imaging is almost as poor as the mono example I gave (you can get slightly more out of it, using relative phase and delays, but theres a reason why people use surround sound for films.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:47:25 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

Are you kidding? I've got hundreds of mono records I could play to
you which are a superb 'listen' and, FWIW, you would *never* guess
they weren't stereo! (40s, 50s and 60s Bands and Jazz mostly.)


I can agree with that strongly! If Keith hadn't told me it was mono, I
wouldn't have known!

I guess my point got lost here...

what I was getting at is, in the same vein as people are arguing that a stereo pair can image behind you from their front L+R positions, using tricks involving the rooms acoustics, a mono speaker on (say) the left, ought to be able to image on the right.

Whilst this is possible, I doubt anyone would recommend it as a way of listening. one centre speaker or a mono pair, but not one off to one side.

front/rear stereo imaging is almost as poor as the mono example I gave (you can get slightly more out of it, using relative phase and delays, but theres a reason why people use surround sound for films.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:48:07 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:


There is a *lot* more to good stereo than a simple 'ping-pong' effect!
Having said that, although the soundfield tends to follow one around
more, it is also a fallacy to think that mono reproduction isn't
capable of producing the effects of 'left and right', depth and
spatiality, but I will address this elsewhere.

Absolutely agreed. just to be clear:

*nowhere have I said front/rear stereo imaging doesnt work, nor that it
is valueless
*nowhere have I said mono cant image left/right (in fact, I made a point
of the fact that it can).

Also, dare I say it? - the choice of media and type of amplification
is very important to get the best demonstration of the above effects.

well, it'll affect it, sure - bass being omnidirectional to a far
greater degree than treble - the 'reflection' effects are far more
noticeable in the treble, so any medium that boosts treble or attenuates
bass will score 'well' on imaging (other things being 'correct').

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:48:07 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:


There is a *lot* more to good stereo than a simple 'ping-pong' effect!
Having said that, although the soundfield tends to follow one around
more, it is also a fallacy to think that mono reproduction isn't
capable of producing the effects of 'left and right', depth and
spatiality, but I will address this elsewhere.

Absolutely agreed. just to be clear:

*nowhere have I said front/rear stereo imaging doesnt work, nor that it
is valueless
*nowhere have I said mono cant image left/right (in fact, I made a point
of the fact that it can).

Also, dare I say it? - the choice of media and type of amplification
is very important to get the best demonstration of the above effects.

well, it'll affect it, sure - bass being omnidirectional to a far
greater degree than treble - the 'reflection' effects are far more
noticeable in the treble, so any medium that boosts treble or attenuates
bass will score 'well' on imaging (other things being 'correct').

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

Ian Molton wrote:

Stuff like the positioning of the mics when recording classical music,
at, say, a concert, or the fact that engineers probablyuse a pair of
monitors when mixing 'pop' or other similarly recorded stuff.

Pop music is usually multitracked, isn't it? Would two widely-spaced mics
also be 'normal'? Do you mean that normal recording is anything that isn't
binaural?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

Ian Molton wrote:

Stuff like the positioning of the mics when recording classical music,
at, say, a concert, or the fact that engineers probablyuse a pair of
monitors when mixing 'pop' or other similarly recorded stuff.

Pop music is usually multitracked, isn't it? Would two widely-spaced mics
also be 'normal'? Do you mean that normal recording is anything that isn't
binaural?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:11:22 GMT
"Wally" wrote:

Stuff like the positioning of the mics when recording classical music,
at, say, a concert, or the fact that engineers probablyuse a pair of
monitors when mixing 'pop' or other similarly recorded stuff.

Pop music is usually multitracked, isn't it? Would two widely-spaced mics
also be 'normal'? Do you mean that normal recording is anything that isn't
binaural?

The vast majority of soud systems is a stereo pair of loudspeakers.

therefore most music will be designed for such.

normal is the 'most usual'

I dont think I can make it clearer, sorry.


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.