loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

In article , Ian Bell
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


1) Relative times of arrivals at the two ears.

2) Effects of diffraction/scattering from the ear-lobes being
direction dependent.

It is possible in principle to process the sound so that these effects
are pre-applied - hence some of the 'dummy head' recordings. However
with most stereo recordings and broadcasts the sound will be produced
on the assumption that you're listening via a pair of loudspeakers.

Slainte,

Jim


Exactly. And not one of these factors is inherently missing when
listening on headphones

I would disagree.

When you listen to - for example - a 'left only' sound source you hear it
with both ears if listening via speakers, and one ear tends to hear it at a
different time and level to the other. By contrast a 'left only' sound on
headphones provides no input to the right ear. Hence there is quite a
distinct difference in what arrives at the two ears between headphones and
loudspeakers even if we negelect things like room reverberation.

Also, sounds arriving from a loudspeaker are modified by the scattering
effects of the ear lobes in a manner than depends upon the direction of
arrival at the ear. Sounds from a headphone tend to arrive perpendictular
to the ear, and the effects of the lobes altered by the phone's physical
presence on the ear. Hence here again there is a distinct difference.


versus loudspeakers so the OPs contention that headphones cannot produce
the quality of stereo image that speakers can is false. I agree that
material *designed* to be heard via two speakers ought to sound *better*
on speakers but that was not the point under debate.

The above differences exist, and are measurable. However the degree to
which they affect the perceived result will depend upon circumstances,
including the choce of listener. What is "better" is a matter of
circumstances and personal preference.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:51:40 +0000 (GMT)
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Not quite. When you hear a 'fully left' sound from a loudspeaker in a
room, both of your ears hear the sound, but the sound at your left ear
arrives earlier and is louder than that arriving at your right ear.

However when you listen to the same sound on headphones, no sound at
all arrives at your right ear.

Hence the placement of the speakers with respect to your ears adds an
extra'layer' of time information and affects the relative
time/amplitudes at the ears in a way headphones do not.

however Im sure you'll agree that a recording designed for headphones
would have that signal recorded into the right track.

thus the ability to image is not independant of what your source
material is.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:51:40 +0000 (GMT)
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Not quite. When you hear a 'fully left' sound from a loudspeaker in a
room, both of your ears hear the sound, but the sound at your left ear
arrives earlier and is louder than that arriving at your right ear.

However when you listen to the same sound on headphones, no sound at
all arrives at your right ear.

Hence the placement of the speakers with respect to your ears adds an
extra'layer' of time information and affects the relative
time/amplitudes at the ears in a way headphones do not.

however Im sure you'll agree that a recording designed for headphones
would have that signal recorded into the right track.

thus the ability to image is not independant of what your source
material is.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:22:34 +0000
Ian Bell wrote:

I
agree that material *designed* to be heard via two speakers ought to
sound*better* on speakers but that was not the point under debate.

Correct. the original point, which you DIDNT agree with as I recall is
that headphones are capable of a better stereo image than speakers.

show me a pair of speakers that can create the, admittedly unusual,
situation of having a sound entirely in one ear and not at all in the
other.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:22:34 +0000
Ian Bell wrote:

I
agree that material *designed* to be heard via two speakers ought to
sound*better* on speakers but that was not the point under debate.

Correct. the original point, which you DIDNT agree with as I recall is
that headphones are capable of a better stereo image than speakers.

show me a pair of speakers that can create the, admittedly unusual,
situation of having a sound entirely in one ear and not at all in the
other.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:40:58 +0000
Ian Bell wrote:

So how did you determine this scientifically correct place, especially if as
you say 'its not really quantifiable'? ;-)

trial and error - I moved things until it didnt sound like crap.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:40:58 +0000
Ian Bell wrote:

So how did you determine this scientifically correct place, especially if as
you say 'its not really quantifiable'? ;-)

trial and error - I moved things until it didnt sound like crap.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

Correct. the original point, which you DIDNT agree with as I recall is
that headphones are capable of a better stereo image than speakers.

show me a pair of speakers that can create the, admittedly unusual,
situation of having a sound entirely in one ear and not at all in the
other.

Ahhhh sir, you are missing the subtlety that is the difference between:

1. A stereo recording, designed to be heard as we would here things in real
life, where sounds are accepted by both ears and positional information
decoded by the brain from the different arrival times, volume levels and
frequency ranges of the source.

2. A binaural recording, designed to be heard through isolated left-right
channels and processed for headphone listening at recording time.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/2003

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

Correct. the original point, which you DIDNT agree with as I recall is
that headphones are capable of a better stereo image than speakers.

show me a pair of speakers that can create the, admittedly unusual,
situation of having a sound entirely in one ear and not at all in the
other.

Ahhhh sir, you are missing the subtlety that is the difference between:

1. A stereo recording, designed to be heard as we would here things in real
life, where sounds are accepted by both ears and positional information
decoded by the brain from the different arrival times, volume levels and
frequency ranges of the source.

2. A binaural recording, designed to be heard through isolated left-right
channels and processed for headphone listening at recording time.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.541 / Virus Database: 335 - Release Date: 14/11/2003

loudspeaker stereo imaging
 

"Tim S Kemp" wrote in message
. ..
Correct. the original point, which you DIDNT agree with as I recall is
that headphones are capable of a better stereo image than speakers.

show me a pair of speakers that can create the, admittedly unusual,
situation of having a sound entirely in one ear and not at all in the
other.

Ahhhh sir, you are missing the subtlety that is the difference between:

1. A stereo recording, designed to be heard as we would here things in
real
life, where sounds are accepted by both ears and positional information
decoded by the brain from the different arrival times, volume levels and
frequency ranges of the source.

2. A binaural recording, designed to be heard through isolated left-right
channels and processed for headphone listening at recording time.



Glad someone finally posted that.....