"Stimpy" wrote in message
...
Nick Gorham wrote:

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5 feet
from
an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul, playing BIG power
chords and riding the sustain...



There is, as it happens, but you would need an 80's 1,000cc Jap Sports bike
to experience it.......

;-)

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:11:35 -0000
"Wally" wrote:

So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?

No.

A linear class A valve and SS amp will sound absolutely, 100% totally,
utterly, and completely the same.



Oh no they won't.....


now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)


OK, ya got me there!

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:11:35 -0000
"Wally" wrote:

So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?

No.

A linear class A valve and SS amp will sound absolutely, 100% totally,
utterly, and completely the same.



Oh no they won't.....


now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)


OK, ya got me there!

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:50:03 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

I'd be willing to bet there are detectable differences in the output of
those amps.



So would I, even at "*exact same* voltages"......

Can you explain how this is possible?

if you drive the same voltages (and assuming your PSU is up to the job) you will cause the same current to flow, the speaker will move the same way, and its impedance will vary in the same way also.

correct me if Im wrong, do...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:50:03 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

I'd be willing to bet there are detectable differences in the output of
those amps.



So would I, even at "*exact same* voltages"......

Can you explain how this is possible?

if you drive the same voltages (and assuming your PSU is up to the job) you will cause the same current to flow, the speaker will move the same way, and its impedance will vary in the same way also.

correct me if Im wrong, do...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote



Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a linear
SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical* to each
other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


Is that right? So how do you *measure* quality?



Simple, you need a timing device to time how long it takes you to get fed up
with the sound you're listening to.

For myself, I would use a stopwatch to time a CD/SS sesh playing 90's Bimbo
Pop and probably a calender to time a decent stint of 40s/50s/60/s (even
70s) Jazz, Latin, selected Classical and selected Easy Listening (with a
sprinkling of Laurie Anderson, Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell) played only on
vinyl with valve amplification.....

;-)

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote



Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a linear
SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical* to each
other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


Is that right? So how do you *measure* quality?



Simple, you need a timing device to time how long it takes you to get fed up
with the sound you're listening to.

For myself, I would use a stopwatch to time a CD/SS sesh playing 90's Bimbo
Pop and probably a calender to time a decent stint of 40s/50s/60/s (even
70s) Jazz, Latin, selected Classical and selected Easy Listening (with a
sprinkling of Laurie Anderson, Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell) played only on
vinyl with valve amplification.....

;-)

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:37:44 -0000
"Wally" wrote:

now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)

If there is no such thing in either category, then, are there differences in
their non-lienarity that might make the types distibuishable?

quite possibly, but thats not the issue here.

You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the
other, and cranked it up... :-)

Ouch! transients!

A cranked amp flattens transients and turns them into tone.

If by cranked you mean overdriven ;-)

Im calling the Royal Society For the Prevenion of Cruelty to
Loudspeakers

Nah, my Celestions have had far worse kickings than a 20W amp can ever hope
to dish out.

I fear for your tweeters... maybe thats why you like vinyl so?


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:37:44 -0000
"Wally" wrote:

now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)

If there is no such thing in either category, then, are there differences in
their non-lienarity that might make the types distibuishable?

quite possibly, but thats not the issue here.

You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the
other, and cranked it up... :-)

Ouch! transients!

A cranked amp flattens transients and turns them into tone.

If by cranked you mean overdriven ;-)

Im calling the Royal Society For the Prevenion of Cruelty to
Loudspeakers

Nah, my Celestions have had far worse kickings than a 20W amp can ever hope
to dish out.

I fear for your tweeters... maybe thats why you like vinyl so?


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 23:58:05 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

A linear class A valve and SS amp will sound absolutely, 100% totally,
utterly, and completely the same.

Oh no they won't.....

panto Hes behind you! with a big boot! /panto

now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)

OK, ya got me there!


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.