On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:32:06 -0000
"Wally" wrote:

quite possibly, but thats not the issue here.

If neither type has linear examples, then, unless both types are non-linear
in the same way, might they have different characteristic sounds?

Yes.

Nah, my Celestions have had far worse kickings than a 20W amp can
ever hope to dish out.

I fear for your tweeters... maybe thats why you like vinyl so?

I have nil vinyl.

Oops - thought I was replying to Keith ;-)

As for tweeters, I'm not talking about Celestion hi-fi
speakers, but the 12" guitar drivers.

ahhh, all is forgiven ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote



Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a
linear SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical* to
each other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


Is that right? So how do you *measure* quality?



Simple, you need a timing device to time how long it takes you to get fed
up with the sound you're listening to.


That's not a measurement, it's merely a sample.

Ian

Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote



Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a
linear SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical* to
each other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


Is that right? So how do you *measure* quality?



Simple, you need a timing device to time how long it takes you to get fed
up with the sound you're listening to.


That's not a measurement, it's merely a sample.

Ian

Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected
to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the
speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects
) and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages
SPLs or whatever. Trust me....


That doesn't surprise but then I bet they don't have identical specs
anyway.



Actually, blind men don't wear specs - they mostly wear shades......

You aobviously don't know very many blind men then.

Ian

Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected
to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the
speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects
) and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages
SPLs or whatever. Trust me....


That doesn't surprise but then I bet they don't have identical specs
anyway.



Actually, blind men don't wear specs - they mostly wear shades......

You aobviously don't know very many blind men then.

Ian

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:29:52 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, I'm sure you're right - *all* amps producing the same voltage to the
same pair of speakers in exactly the same way will produce exactly the
same
sound....... :-)

Yeah, but 'exactly the same way' means that they have to have the same
distortion characteristics.


Yup.

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 01:29:52 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, I'm sure you're right - *all* amps producing the same voltage to the
same pair of speakers in exactly the same way will produce exactly the
same
sound....... :-)

Yeah, but 'exactly the same way' means that they have to have the same
distortion characteristics.


Yup.

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the
difference
in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected
to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the
speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else
common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects
) and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match
voltages
SPLs or whatever. Trust me....


That doesn't surprise but then I bet they don't have identical specs
anyway.



Actually, blind men don't wear specs - they mostly wear shades......

You aobviously don't know very many blind men then.



Only these five:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keith_g/show/Mazin'%20Grace.mp3

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the
difference
in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected
to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the
speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else
common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects
) and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match
voltages
SPLs or whatever. Trust me....


That doesn't surprise but then I bet they don't have identical specs
anyway.



Actually, blind men don't wear specs - they mostly wear shades......

You aobviously don't know very many blind men then.



Only these five:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keith_g/show/Mazin'%20Grace.mp3

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote



Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a
linear SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical*
to
each other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in
the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


Is that right? So how do you *measure* quality?



Simple, you need a timing device to time how long it takes you to get
fed
up with the sound you're listening to.


That's not a measurement, it's merely a sample.



OK, there's another way - you need a builder's tape (say up to 50m) measure
for this:

Fix the end of the tape to your hifi stand, put the music on each amp in
turn and keep a grip of the tape until you realise you've stopped listening
to the music. Check the tape measure to see how far you have wandered off
each time......

;-)