Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

You're talking about the whole of the Audio industry up to the sixties.

Surely then acoustic recording of gramophone records must be best since
this came first too?.

Different formats - not comparable

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

There's a reason why valve fans have to use 70-year old devices.

I suggest it's you who are 70 years out of date with valves - not only are
designs changing but new - and in some cases better - valves are being
produced. But of course you wouldn't want to admit that would you?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

I would (if I may) suggest the best way forward is for the relatively few
'valvies'
here to avoid the contention and simply ignore 'anti valve' remarks.

Thanks Kieth - thank you very much for a very sympathetic post. All your points
are good ones. I'm surprised that there isn't more support for valves in the UK
- it really seems to be far more popular in the USA and the Far East - hence
I'm not against calling them 'tubes' in deference to our US friends who are
really carrying the banner. As you well know, valve lovers can regularly use
RAT and AA and that's really enough since that's where the action is (together
with the Joelist). It just seems a rather forlorn fact that you can't discuss
valves on a British newsgroup after our country has had such a great history in
valves. I still use my Leak ST20 that I bought new with my Dad and I have
substantial loyalty to the British valve tradition. But practically speaking,
it is impossible to ignore the Kruegerton virus - it does too much damage.
Taking valves onto the vinyl board is one suggestion, but not really 'honest' -
many valve users prefer CDs these days. I personalloy wouldn't defend vinyl,
though I still use it. But as you say, the sound of a really good valve amp is
something that you just don't get in off-the-shelf "What Hi-Fi *****" boxes of
cheapo parts made in China. Blame the British Hi-Fi press, solid state
monopolies like BADA, Russ Andrews etc.etc. for turning the British tradition
of solid invention into a nation of mindless tweakers obsessed with cables and
funny feet. All my friends in the UK are builders, not users. We don't go into
Hi-Fi stores, we buy componants in RS or Maplins. We've carefully taught
ourselves to build amps, preamps etc through books like Morgan's "Valve
Amplifiers" - another instance of the great UK living tradition. But by now
we're a cottage industry. We have Internet options like the Leak group - a very
happy one - and the London Audiocircle, which is a hotbed of design ideas and
very good blokes - we share stuff out, give each other unwanted stuff, meet for
a drink once a month, have house meets etc etc. I recommend it.
. In actual fact absolutely nobody who is serious
about valves that I know of hangs out on this newsgroup , and I seriously
wonder whether there's any point in doing so since the place is like the Marie
Celeste to valve users. Please do suggest anything more positive, but things
look pretty black from here. Or should I simply say grey. Cheers, Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

**My dog, is the only creature I use my authority over. I stated facts. Care
to comment on my facts?

See my other posts, Trevor. I over-reacted because of being wound up by the
Kruegerton virus. Just a case of a bad cold. fortunately it passes. I don't
think we're in much disagreement - it's just that the atmosphere in this ng is
putrid because of its constant pests. Cheers, Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

In article ,
Andy Evans wrote:
You're talking about the whole of the Audio industry up to the
sixties.

Surely then acoustic recording of gramophone records must be best
since this came first too?.

Different formats - not comparable

They were compatible at the time, and ran in parallel for several years.

BTW, talking of compatibility, could you please set your newsreader so it
follows the convention as regards quoting? I've done this above to show
you the difference.

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article , Keith G
wrote:

The resistor (I have managed to get a couple of R47Js rated at 4W -
I take it these will be OK?) is then chopped into the 'loop' between
A and B.

Not certain I know what is meant above. 'R47' is a common term for
'0.47 Ohms', so I assume this is what is meant. Not sure about the
'J'.

May be important to ensure the resistors are 'non inductive'. Are they
wire-wound? If so, they should ideally be non-inductive sic
windings. Otherwise there is a risk of unintended inductive effects
upon the hf.

At 0.47 ohms one doesn't find a lot of inductance in resistors. Ever took
one apart? Not a lot of turns.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message

**My dog, is the only creature I use my authority over. I stated
facts. Care to comment on my facts?

See my other posts, Trevor. I over-reacted because of being wound up
by the Kruegerton virus. Just a case of a bad cold. fortunately it
passes. I don't think we're in much disagreement - it's just that the
atmosphere in this ng is putrid because of its constant pests.
Cheers, Andy


You're just posturing.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message

OK Andy, first off (due to bad snipping - which is on the increase in
here) it looks like you are calling Jim Lesurf a 'valve knocker'
which, I'm certain, is not quite the case.

If that's so I apologise. But let's go back to the beginning. I
posted website details for some of Lynn Olsen's arguments in defense
of valves. What happened was:

1. Nobody bothered to read what I posted

They were deconstructed with the usual speed and efficiency.

2. People seem to just have read the word 'valve' to trigger a
childish and simplistic response - several thought I was Lynn Olsen,
though I made it clear I wasn't

Irrelevant.

3. I am absolutely FED UP with being patronised by people who
continue to say 'well it's alright if you like valves as long as you
say it's strictly subjective (like I'm some sort of freak kept in the
East Wing)' Whereas 'we who like transistors' are of course objective
so we don't even need to listen to know we're right.

Welcome to the real world.

4. There's a hell of a lot of careful thought going on in valves -
follow Audio Asylum for some very complex arguments

Sorry, but I'm not a small enough child to be impressed by the posturing
that goes in at AA.

5. It is POINTLESS thinking that some retro chassis from the sixties
is the cutting edge of valve technology, and just as pointless to
think that all valve amps sound alike and have 'that valve sound'
(dreadful phrase) yet all valve amps seem to be lumped together.

Straw man.

6. I have carefully explained in a number of posts the improvements
that can be made at component level to radically improve the sound of
a valve amp. All this can be followed in great detail on Audio Asylum
in the Tweakers and Tube DIY sections.

Sorry, but I'm not a small enough child to be impressed by the posturing
that goes in at AA.

7. I've been a musician for about 40 years and my hearing is
absolutely fine down to fine details. I know exactly what I'm
listening for and why.

That was deconstructed too, but Andy you seem to be able to ignore anything
that doesn't support your out-of-date, bizarre, self-centered thinking.

I could go on, but since I'm largely talking to robots, why should I?

Please go on, it's fun laughing at your folly.

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message

**I don't insulting people furthers your case. Holding your alleged
musician's status over the heads of others, does absolutely nothing for
me.

Hello Trevor - I'm sorry but I'm so angry with the continual and
consistent barrage of sabotage from Pinkerton/Krueger

It's not sabotage Andy, its an attempt to offset your grotesque errors with
the truth.

that I tend to
assume that everyone who gratuitously insults valves and arrogantly
insults the intelligence of people that use them are singing from the
same hymn sheet.

It's called science and engineering. You might want to show an interest in
it Andy some day when you grow up.

Pinkerton/Krueger has effectively destroyed this
newsgroup, which used to be quite pleasant, to the point where half
of it is SO exasperated they split the newsgroup into two just to
escape from Pinkerton/Krueger's relentless trolling.

I monitor the split-off group and frankly, it's already dying. If you
eliminated the for-sale ads, there really wouldn't be a lot there. Proves my
point, that most of the *fun* of vinyl is actually trolling people in the
mainstream.

They infest
every post, annoy everybody, and polarise people who would otherwise
enjoy interesting conversations.

Andy, your many public dalliances with anti-science and irrationality are
really quite charming, but it's really not the grist of interesting
conversations.

Like vermin and house pests they
contribute vistually nothing of any help to anyone and do far, far
more damage than they should be allowed to.

To the contrary, the science and reason that we purvey lends a helpful air
of sanity to what could easily become quite confused proceedings.

No wonder people are
deserting this newsgroup - you can't have a sane conversation about
vinyl (I'm personally happy with CDs but I still use vinyl) or valves
without it turning into a pathetic shouting match that would be
considered immature in a pampered three year old.

Since you're one of the leading shouters Andy, what does that say about you?

Hello valve lovers, wherever you are.
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Andy Evans" wrote


snipped it all


Andy, I have snipped your whole reply (much of which I was in
agreement with) to make a (relatively) brief observation in the hope
it will help.

We have had a situation in this group recently where a small minority
of 'anti vinylists' managed to make the very mention of the subject
into intense arseache for all here for a very long time. Worse yet
was the certain knowledge (according to correspondence I've had) that
it was putting people off the group and getting the group an
international rep for childishness and acrimony. (Which, AFAIAC, may
well be the 'norm' in and therefore OK for rao but not for the
UK....... ;-)

Revisionist history. It's well known that most of the fun of vinyl is not
listening to it (Gad! all those tics and pops) but trolling mainstream music
lovers. While something less than 1% of all recordings are sold on vinyl,
incessant trolling by vinyl bigots clogs many audio newsgroups. A strong
reaction to all this trolling has led to the creation of a vinyl ghetto
newsgroup. However, its virtually assured that this newsgroup will be a lame
effort since if it thrives, it would necessarily avoid all that pleasurable
trolling.

As a result a separate vinyl group has been formed and (despite
no-one seems to be able to get on it yet) is showing early signs of
taking root.

Actually lots of people are getting on it, including people who I never saw
post on URA. They just can't find a lot to talk about, for the
aforementioned reasons.

It's my hope that 'vinylists' who do not subscribe to
this group will find their way into it and that it will grow. Already
there has been a marked decrease in vinyl acrimony here and something
of a shift of attitude toward the subject.

Nahh, the vinyl bigots are still trolling, as demonstrated by the existence
of this post.

Logically, if the 'bashing' tendencies of a similar (dare I say the
'very same') minority here are going to shift to valves it would make
sense to create uk.rec.audio.valves (hands up the prat who said
'tubes') which I'm sure Nick G could knock into place in a lunch
break....

Well yes, if we eliminate the trolling based on vinyl, some other topic will
have to take its place. Valve retro-technology audio seems like a likely
enough replacement.

However we 'valvies' are in a much smaller minority here than I
believe the 'vinylists' were and I feel rec.audio.tubes (hands up the
prat who said 'valves') is much better placed to serve the needs of
UK valve lovers. (I believe a good number of UK valvies already
subscribe there on a regular basis, in any case.) My take on valves
is rather like that of Harley Davidson riders - 'if ya gotta ask,
then you probably wouldn't understand the answer......'

rec.audio.tubes has been there all along. This begs the question as to why
this recent tube madness even came up. Well, the answer is obvious if you
can spell the word "Troll".

It's easy to shoot valves down on paper and (IMO) almost impossible to
defend them.

Obsolete technology can be that way.

I posted earlier this evening that a modest valve amp
easily beat a modest SS amp in a quick comparison tonight with the
killer 'valves and vinyl' combination.

As if...

I know it was probably all
down to the phono stages but it was 'so big' a blind man could have
seen it - IOW, no contest, no way.....!! It is only an observation
and of no importance (or interest, probably) to anyone else here....

This coming from a totally unbiased and unimpeachable source, namely our
good man Andy...

(Trying desperately to keep a straight face!)

Someone's got to put the brakes on this 'split to the point of
destruction' or we are going to end up with
uk.rec.audio.silver.solder one day.

rec.audio.tubes seems to be healthy enough.

I would (if I may) suggest the
best way forward is for the relatively few 'valvies' here to avoid
the contention and simply ignore 'anti valve' remarks. (There are a
good number here who already do just that - me included, normally!)
It certainly doesn't do much good to make a fuss about it if you are
going to be ****ed off by the reactions you get!

Here's an idea. Why not take this valve retro-technology weirdness back to
rec.audio.tubes where it belongs?


Do what I do - switch your amps on before tea, go in a bit later and
have a quiet little smerk to yourself when you spin the first one up!

Or do what I do, and that's post stuff in the appropriate newsgroup.