In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...




So far as I can tell, the use of Vinyl LPs, etc, has virtually
vanished from public consciousness, and it is only now used by those
who have a 'legacy' collection they wish to play, and a some
enthusiasts.


That remark shows you to be entirely ignorant of the torrent of new
equipment and new releases that continue to flow. I think you
underestimate the interest in vinyl - the UK alone is no indicator...

You are quite correct. :-) I am entirely unaware of any such "torrent". I
do see LP playing systems and new LPs reported in audio magazines, though.


Afraid I haven't seen any evidence of a "torrent" of LPs/EPs/45's selling
in shops to the general public. Indeed, the figures I just posted in
another item seem not to show such a "torrent" - unless your definition
squares with well below 1 percent of the total sales of physical carriers
(CDs, LPs, etc) for music. But I don't personally regard such a small
faction of the total to be describable as a "torrent", I'm afraid.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


I must admit I haven't recalled anything like this which I'd regard as
a 'Vinyl War'.


That's because you weren't fighting it.

Agreed. So far as I can recall, I have had no objections or arguments with
anyone who prefers to play LPs. Nor do I have any wish to stop you voicing
your views - even when I disagree. :-)


I also wouldn't call it a 'win' for 'Vinyl' to simply feel
able to post your views.


What would qualify for a win?

In this context I had no real idea. That is why I was indicating that it
seemed a strange term to me to apply in this context.


Although you might feel it was a personal 'win',



Sure I bloody do - despite all the offlist 'encouragement' I got, there
weren't too many others taking the bashers on at the time....

In that case it was a 'win' for you in refusing to be put off. But that
isn't the same as a 'win' for the format.


I
don't see that as being one for 'Vinyl' as such. On that basis you
might just as easily say "CD has won some 'war'" because I and others
are happy to post comments about it here...


???

Your logic escapes me here....

The above seemed to me to be a mirror image of what you were saying.
However I assume now that your meaning was a personal 'win' in the face of
intense arguments. This would be a distinction between your statement and
mine - unless people want to argue against my preference for CD over
Vinyl... :-)


snip


On the above basis Vinyl looks to be only a tiny fraction of CD, and
are falling. Although it looks like Vinyl 45's are doing rather better
than SACD. :-)

Anyone know world or UK values for the above?


I take all these figures with a large pinch of salt - there was an
article in a UK publication recently that claimed a massive (170%?)
increase in the last year's sales of 7 inch singles.

Afraid that does sound as if you simply prefer to pick and choose the
figures, accepting those that suit your wishes and dismissing those who
don't. Can you say what "UK publication" said this and give a reference we
can check? The values I gave came from riaa.com. Not clear to me why they
might want to bend the figures to make Vinyl look less popular than
reality. Certainly, the values they give seem consistent with the
impressions I get talking to people outside the niche group who are keen
audio enthusiasts, and with what I get from looking in shops that aren't
specialist audio dealers.

Any of these figure could be wrong,

Indeed, or meaningless, or misleading. :-)

For example a "170 percent increase" might mean "we sold 10 last year and
27 this year". Massive increase, but somewhat less than a billion sales
overall. Nice for those who bought and enjoyed them, but may be well below
the radar for most people. May also be an incorrect figure.

the 'increases' in vinyl awareness/usage I refer to are more the new
decks and associated kit that keep coming out. Presumably people buying
the stuff have got something to play on it it?

Those who do, yes. In particular, I noted those who have 'legacy'
collections they still wish to play. But I am quite sure there are still
people eagerly buying new LPs, etc.

However I worked in the audio biz for long enough to realise that many
models (and manufacturers) appear, get reviews, then fade away. And that
what you read in magazines isn't always a reliable guide to reality.

The Vinyl systems recommended in magazines often look very nice, and the
write-ups make them sound great. But I have no clear idea how many units
are actually sold. Indeed, I suspect that only a small fraction of the UK
public even read such mags, let alone buy the things they recommend.

Thus the fact that new models keep appearing and get good reviews does not
ensure there is a rising tide of sales. May simple be selling different
models from one year to another, with a volume that may be varying without
regard to the number of models featured in magazines.

The above may not be a problem for niche market specialist makers since
they can simply charge a high price and sell in low volumes. (Assuming that
their models are ones that allow them to survive.) The point here is that
such makers can survive by selling to only a small fraction of the UK
public.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...




So far as I can tell, the use of Vinyl LPs, etc, has virtually
vanished from public consciousness, and it is only now used by those
who have a 'legacy' collection they wish to play, and a some
enthusiasts.


That remark shows you to be entirely ignorant of the torrent of new
equipment and new releases that continue to flow. I think you
underestimate the interest in vinyl - the UK alone is no indicator...

You are quite correct. :-) I am entirely unaware of any such "torrent". I
do see LP playing systems and new LPs reported in audio magazines, though.


Afraid I haven't seen any evidence of a "torrent" of LPs/EPs/45's selling
in shops to the general public. Indeed, the figures I just posted in
another item seem not to show such a "torrent" - unless your definition
squares with well below 1 percent of the total sales of physical carriers
(CDs, LPs, etc) for music. But I don't personally regard such a small
faction of the total to be describable as a "torrent", I'm afraid.


:-)

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


I must admit I haven't recalled anything like this which I'd regard as
a 'Vinyl War'.


That's because you weren't fighting it.

Agreed. So far as I can recall, I have had no objections or arguments with
anyone who prefers to play LPs. Nor do I have any wish to stop you voicing
your views - even when I disagree. :-)


I also wouldn't call it a 'win' for 'Vinyl' to simply feel
able to post your views.


What would qualify for a win?

In this context I had no real idea. That is why I was indicating that it
seemed a strange term to me to apply in this context.


Although you might feel it was a personal 'win',



Sure I bloody do - despite all the offlist 'encouragement' I got, there
weren't too many others taking the bashers on at the time....

In that case it was a 'win' for you in refusing to be put off. But that
isn't the same as a 'win' for the format.


I
don't see that as being one for 'Vinyl' as such. On that basis you
might just as easily say "CD has won some 'war'" because I and others
are happy to post comments about it here...


???

Your logic escapes me here....

The above seemed to me to be a mirror image of what you were saying.
However I assume now that your meaning was a personal 'win' in the face of
intense arguments. This would be a distinction between your statement and
mine - unless people want to argue against my preference for CD over
Vinyl... :-)


snip


On the above basis Vinyl looks to be only a tiny fraction of CD, and
are falling. Although it looks like Vinyl 45's are doing rather better
than SACD. :-)

Anyone know world or UK values for the above?


I take all these figures with a large pinch of salt - there was an
article in a UK publication recently that claimed a massive (170%?)
increase in the last year's sales of 7 inch singles.

Afraid that does sound as if you simply prefer to pick and choose the
figures, accepting those that suit your wishes and dismissing those who
don't. Can you say what "UK publication" said this and give a reference we
can check? The values I gave came from riaa.com. Not clear to me why they
might want to bend the figures to make Vinyl look less popular than
reality. Certainly, the values they give seem consistent with the
impressions I get talking to people outside the niche group who are keen
audio enthusiasts, and with what I get from looking in shops that aren't
specialist audio dealers.

Any of these figure could be wrong,

Indeed, or meaningless, or misleading. :-)

For example a "170 percent increase" might mean "we sold 10 last year and
27 this year". Massive increase, but somewhat less than a billion sales
overall. Nice for those who bought and enjoyed them, but may be well below
the radar for most people. May also be an incorrect figure.

the 'increases' in vinyl awareness/usage I refer to are more the new
decks and associated kit that keep coming out. Presumably people buying
the stuff have got something to play on it it?

Those who do, yes. In particular, I noted those who have 'legacy'
collections they still wish to play. But I am quite sure there are still
people eagerly buying new LPs, etc.

However I worked in the audio biz for long enough to realise that many
models (and manufacturers) appear, get reviews, then fade away. And that
what you read in magazines isn't always a reliable guide to reality.

The Vinyl systems recommended in magazines often look very nice, and the
write-ups make them sound great. But I have no clear idea how many units
are actually sold. Indeed, I suspect that only a small fraction of the UK
public even read such mags, let alone buy the things they recommend.

Thus the fact that new models keep appearing and get good reviews does not
ensure there is a rising tide of sales. May simple be selling different
models from one year to another, with a volume that may be varying without
regard to the number of models featured in magazines.

The above may not be a problem for niche market specialist makers since
they can simply charge a high price and sell in low volumes. (Assuming
that
their models are ones that allow them to survive.) The point here is that
such makers can survive by selling to only a small fraction of the UK
public.


Jim, I appreciate your long, detailed and thoughtful reply, but the truth is
I can't be arsed to argue for or against any particular recorded music
format/amplifier type/speaker type - each to his own!

Play your CDs and enjoy them, I'll do the same with my records!! ;-)

With my triodes.....

On my (today, temporarily) newly completed Lowther 'firewood horns':

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/infi...nfidelio15.jpg

Slainte yourself.....

;-)

"Keith G" wrote


With my triodes.....

On my (today, temporarily) newly completed Lowther 'firewood horns':

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/infi...nfidelio15.jpg



(The only thing in that pic I didn't build was the turntable....!! :-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
You're making the same mistake as the Twisted Sisters - the Vinyl Wars
raged *here* in ukra and the 'win' is the fact that posters can now
occasionally post vinyl topics here without the mile-long 'vinyl
bashing' ****fests which were the norm a year or two (or three?) ago.
No-one, other than Arny, said anything about what percentage of AV
products currently being bought/ripped/downloaded by Joe Chav were
vinyl....

I take it you are incapable of understanding the post I made a couple of
days ago about how vinyl adds to any signal?

Now this may suit you and others with a quaint view about sound
reproduction, but most - if they find a newsgroup where, as you, it is
thought superior - are likely to simply shake their heads and not bother
with it, rather the same as one which states the world is flat.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
It drew the vinyl bashing away from ukra.

There was no 'vinyl bashing' here. Simply factual replies to those like
you who simply refuse to admit to its shortcomings and furthermore impart
it with some magical properties it just doesn't have. And most of those
who did try to explain things to you have been through the times when
vinyl was the main (and much loved) source of Hi-Fi material - unlike it
seems yourself.


It wasn't a serious idea when I first suggested it and was really only
a 'threat'! It only came into existence because someone grabbed the
idea and ran with it. (I don't care what happens to it and I don't even
subscribe there...!!!)

It is a very sensible group for those such as yourself - in the same way
as say a classic car group is for those who want to proclaim that their
Morris Minor is superior in every way to a Ford Focus. However, it
apparently doesn't have great enough traffic for your evangelism...

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I must admit I haven't recalled anything like this which I'd regard as
a 'Vinyl War'.

That's because you weren't fighting it.

I also wouldn't call it a 'win' for 'Vinyl' to simply feel able to
post your views.

What would qualify for a win?

Although you might feel it was a personal 'win',

Perhaps your idea of a win is a straw poll of number of posts on here -
where most of the pro posts come from yourself? ;-)

Sure I bloody do - despite all the offlist 'encouragement' I got, there
weren't too many others taking the bashers on at the time....

I find this mentioning of 'offlist' posts from you and some others
confusing. It's a simple matter to set up an alias so you can't be
recognised on a newsgroup, so why would people feel the need to post
direct to you rather than the group? Unless their 'faith' is incredibly
shaky...

--
*With her marriage she got a new name and a dress.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I must admit I haven't recalled anything like this which I'd regard as
a 'Vinyl War'.

That's because you weren't fighting it.

I also wouldn't call it a 'win' for 'Vinyl' to simply feel able to
post your views.

What would qualify for a win?

Although you might feel it was a personal 'win',

Perhaps your idea of a win is a straw poll of number of posts on here -
where most of the pro posts come from yourself? ;-)

Sure I bloody do - despite all the offlist 'encouragement' I got, there
weren't too many others taking the bashers on at the time....

I find this mentioning of 'offlist' posts from you and some others
confusing. It's a simple matter to set up an alias so you can't be
recognised on a newsgroup, so why would people feel the need to post
direct to you rather than the group? Unless their 'faith' is incredibly
shaky...


I've no idea why somewhere between half and a dozen lurkers/posters/very
occasional posters here prefer to respond direct - perhaps they don't want
to be seen talking to me in public...??

:-))

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
It drew the vinyl bashing away from ukra.

There was no 'vinyl bashing' here. Simply factual replies to those like
you who simply refuse to admit to its shortcomings and furthermore impart
it with some magical properties it just doesn't have. And most of those
who did try to explain things to you have been through the times when
vinyl was the main (and much loved) source of Hi-Fi material - unlike it
seems yourself.


I think you have still got your knickers caught on the barbed wire - anyone
who likes (maybe even prefers) to play vinyl is obviously prepared to accept
the shortcomings as part of the price to pay for a better sound.

Anybody who played vinyl and thought the sound was *worse* would be more
than a tad dumb, would they not?

As to 'magical properties' - as I said earlier, you are the only one who
keeps mentioning this. Google 'measures ****e but sounds better' for some
insight on this apparent paradox (works for valves too)....




It wasn't a serious idea when I first suggested it and was really only
a 'threat'! It only came into existence because someone grabbed the
idea and ran with it. (I don't care what happens to it and I don't even
subscribe there...!!!)

It is a very sensible group for those such as yourself - in the same way
as say a classic car group is for those who want to proclaim that their
Morris Minor is superior in every way to a Ford Focus. However, it
apparently doesn't have great enough traffic for your evangelism...



No, you see this is where you **** up.

No-one *ever* made any silly 'superior in every way' claims - that only came
from your side of the argument. At best, most vinylists only ever professed
to enjoy the sound of records better and perceived certain qialities not
found in CDs, as I do. I have even said that I prefer a CDR made from a
vinyl recording to a 'normal CD' - I got no problem with 'digital sound
reproduction', I just don't see it as the best way to *play music*....

.....short of getting the spoons/comb and bog paper* out....


*Izal 'scratchwipe', of course..... ;-)