Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:



One of my chip amps[a parallelled 4780]was built by a highly
successful and regarded amplifier designer maker.

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also built
and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess that I
can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged "fame" of
the designer may have no real relationship to do with the actual quality of
the products.

I loaned my other chip amp -a Sonic Art 3876T kit to an audiophile
friend who owns and has owned all sorts of monster SS amps incuding
Pass Labs Aleph 3,Plinius,Audio Research,Luxman,M.E.850,HSA single
ended,Sugden A 21 as well as Bel Canto and ICE digital type amps. He
also agrees that this thing is a real giant killer and better than any
non valve amp he has heard.[This was using a valve preamp and efficient
speakers] So i am not the only delusional one.

It does not surprise me particulary if someone decides that some amps using
'chips' sound as good or better as other types. What I have found odder is
the predjudices people have on such grounds without having either tried the
items in question, or having any understanding of the engineering involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums.
Or search reviews in 6 Moons.
Or visit the Supratek site.

In article .com,
wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also
built and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess that
I can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged
"fame" of the designer may have no real relationship to do with the
actual quality of the products.


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums. Or search reviews in 6 Moons. Or visit the Supratek
site.

Your point being that he is "famous" in the places where he is known? :-)

Regardless of which, my main point what that being "well known in
concentric circles" does not necessarily tell us anything about the actual
quality of the product.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also
built and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess that
I can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged
"fame" of the designer may have no real relationship to do with the
actual quality of the products.


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums. Or search reviews in 6 Moons. Or visit the Supratek
site.

Your point being that he is "famous" in the places where he is known? :-)

Regardless of which, my main point what that being "well known in
concentric circles" does not necessarily tell us anything about the actual
quality of the product.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,
I agree.It would be famous only in a cultish sort of way.
Probably the only famous audio designer would be Dr Bose-and largely
through spending lots of money promoting his own products.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also
built and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market
but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess
that
I can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged
"fame" of the designer may have no real relationship to do with the
actual quality of the products.


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums. Or search reviews in 6 Moons. Or visit the Supratek
site.

Your point being that he is "famous" in the places where he is known?
:-)

Regardless of which, my main point what that being "well known in
concentric circles" does not necessarily tell us anything about the
actual
quality of the product.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,
I agree.It would be famous only in a cultish sort of way.
Probably the only famous audio designer would be Dr Bose-and largely
through spending lots of money promoting his own products.

**You need to get out (much) more. Here's a short list of reasonably famous
designers (which people have actually heard of), who have runs on the board:

John Curl
Jim Bongiorno
Ken Ishiwata
Jeff Rowland
Saul Marantz
Dick Johnson
Tim de Paravicini
Peter Walker
Peter Stein
Jim Lesurf

These are people who not only are well known and highly regarded in the area
of amplifier design, but that actually properly specify (or specified) the
products they designed. There are many others, of course. I've chatted to
four of the above designers and find them to be modest, educated and careful
about design aspects, so that objective performance is maximised. All care
about specifications.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:


**You need to get out (much) more. Here's a short list of reasonably
famous designers (which people have actually heard of), who have runs
on the board:

John Curl Jim Bongiorno Ken Ishiwata Jeff Rowland Saul Marantz Dick
Johnson Tim de Paravicini Peter Walker Peter Stein Jim Lesurf

I'd like to make clear my alarm at being included in the above list!
Although I appreciate that the critierion may be, "people on this newsgroup
have probably heard of them." :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:


**You need to get out (much) more. Here's a short list of reasonably
famous designers (which people have actually heard of), who have runs
on the board:

John Curl Jim Bongiorno Ken Ishiwata Jeff Rowland Saul Marantz Dick
Johnson Tim de Paravicini Peter Walker Peter Stein Jim Lesurf

I'd like to make clear my alarm at being included in the above list!
Although I appreciate that the critierion may be, "people on this
newsgroup
have probably heard of them." :-)

**LOL! I couldn't leave you out Jim.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:



One of my chip amps[a parallelled 4780]was built by a highly
successful and regarded amplifier designer maker.

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also built
and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess that I
can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged "fame" of
the designer may have no real relationship to do with the actual quality
of
the products.

I loaned my other chip amp -a Sonic Art 3876T kit to an audiophile
friend who owns and has owned all sorts of monster SS amps incuding
Pass Labs Aleph 3,Plinius,Audio Research,Luxman,M.E.850,HSA single
ended,Sugden A 21 as well as Bel Canto and ICE digital type amps. He
also agrees that this thing is a real giant killer and better than any
non valve amp he has heard.[This was using a valve preamp and efficient
speakers] So i am not the only delusional one.

It does not surprise me particulary if someone decides that some amps
using
'chips' sound as good or better as other types. What I have found odder
is
the predjudices people have on such grounds without having either tried
the
items in question, or having any understanding of the engineering
involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums.
Or search reviews in 6 Moons.
Or visit the Supratek site.

**Mr Maloney appears to eschew quoting even basic specifications for his
equipment. What is he hiding?

You seem to be under the impression that a bunch of people raving about a
product, automatically confer some kind of status of the product and it's
designer. It doesn't work that way. If it did, Bose would be the best audio
products on the planet. After all, Bose avoid quoting specs too. Mr Maloney
certainly builds attractive products, which are based on obsolete technology
and are priced at a level which makes strong men weep. If he can make money
out of it, then good luck to him. For me, I demand some basic specs from any
manufacturer, before I take him seriously.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:



One of my chip amps[a parallelled 4780]was built by a highly
successful and regarded amplifier designer maker.

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also built
and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess that I
can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged "fame" of
the designer may have no real relationship to do with the actual quality
of
the products.

I loaned my other chip amp -a Sonic Art 3876T kit to an audiophile
friend who owns and has owned all sorts of monster SS amps incuding
Pass Labs Aleph 3,Plinius,Audio Research,Luxman,M.E.850,HSA single
ended,Sugden A 21 as well as Bel Canto and ICE digital type amps. He
also agrees that this thing is a real giant killer and better than any
non valve amp he has heard.[This was using a valve preamp and efficient
speakers] So i am not the only delusional one.

It does not surprise me particulary if someone decides that some amps
using
'chips' sound as good or better as other types. What I have found odder
is
the predjudices people have on such grounds without having either tried
the
items in question, or having any understanding of the engineering
involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums.
Or search reviews in 6 Moons.
Or visit the Supratek site.

**Mr Maloney appears to eschew quoting even basic specifications for his
equipment. What is he hiding?

You seem to be under the impression that a bunch of people raving about a
product, automatically confer some kind of status of the product and it's
designer. It doesn't work that way. If it did, Bose would be the best audio
products on the planet. After all, Bose avoid quoting specs too. Mr Maloney
certainly builds attractive products, which are based on obsolete technology
and are priced at a level which makes strong men weep. If he can make money
out of it, then good luck to him. For me, I demand some basic specs from any
manufacturer, before I take him seriously.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Mick Maloney is probably more like Ken Ishawata.He takes competent
designs which he develops in conjunction with New York audio engineer
Kevin Covi and fine tunes them so they not only measure well but also
sound good.There are plenty of products that measure well but sound
terrible.His fine tuning may even result in products that don't measure
as well [like some of Ken Ishawatas modifications] .This is pure
speculation of course.
Most of his clients couldn't care less about how well they measure.I
have never,however heard from anywhere that they don't,and I know that
he takes great care in running each of his products for an extended
period on his test bench before sending them off to his customers.
Obsolete technology?
If anything is obsolete technology it is the monster transistor amps
you seem to love.These are the real dinasaurs of audio.

JT



So valves are obsolete technology?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:



One of my chip amps[a parallelled 4780]was built by a highly
successful and regarded amplifier designer maker.

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also
built
and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess that
I
can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged "fame"
of
the designer may have no real relationship to do with the actual
quality
of
the products.

I loaned my other chip amp -a Sonic Art 3876T kit to an audiophile
friend who owns and has owned all sorts of monster SS amps incuding
Pass Labs Aleph 3,Plinius,Audio Research,Luxman,M.E.850,HSA single
ended,Sugden A 21 as well as Bel Canto and ICE digital type amps. He
also agrees that this thing is a real giant killer and better than
any
non valve amp he has heard.[This was using a valve preamp and
efficient
speakers] So i am not the only delusional one.

It does not surprise me particulary if someone decides that some amps
using
'chips' sound as good or better as other types. What I have found
odder
is
the predjudices people have on such grounds without having either
tried
the
items in question, or having any understanding of the engineering
involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums.
Or search reviews in 6 Moons.
Or visit the Supratek site.

**Mr Maloney appears to eschew quoting even basic specifications for his
equipment. What is he hiding?

You seem to be under the impression that a bunch of people raving about a
product, automatically confer some kind of status of the product and it's
designer. It doesn't work that way. If it did, Bose would be the best
audio
products on the planet. After all, Bose avoid quoting specs too. Mr
Maloney
certainly builds attractive products, which are based on obsolete
technology
and are priced at a level which makes strong men weep. If he can make
money
out of it, then good luck to him. For me, I demand some basic specs from
any
manufacturer, before I take him seriously.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Mick Maloney is probably more like Ken Ishawata.

**I very much doubt that. I've had some long conversations with Ken
Ishiwata. He REALLY knows his stuff.

He takes competent
designs which he develops in conjunction with New York audio engineer
Kevin Covi and fine tunes them so they not only measure well but also
sound good.

**Then why does he not publish any measurements of his equipment?

There are plenty of products that measure well but sound
terrible.

**Name them.

His fine tuning may even result in products that don't measure
as well [like some of Ken Ishawatas modifications] .This is pure
speculation of course.

**Indeed. You seem to engage in quite a bit of that.

Most of his clients couldn't care less about how well they measure.

**Irrelevant.

I
have never,however heard from anywhere that they don't,and I know that
he takes great care in running each of his products for an extended
period on his test bench before sending them off to his customers.

**And yet there are no useful specs listed on his site for any of his
equipment.

Obsolete technology?

**Yup.

If anything is obsolete technology it is the monster transistor amps
you seem to love.

**Projection. I don't "love" objects.

These are the real dinasaurs of audio.

**Uh-huh. Tell us more.


JT



So valves are obsolete technology?

**Of course. There is nothing (in audio) that can be done with valves, that
cannot be achieved with transistors. With the possible exception of the
gradual wearing out of valves from the instant they are switched on. That
part is quite difficult to duplicate. Even the microphonic effects of valves
can be duplicated, though I have no idea why anyone would want to do so.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article m,
wrote:



One of my chip amps[a parallelled 4780]was built by a highly
successful and regarded amplifier designer maker.

He is most famous for his valve amps and preamps but has also
built
and successfully marketed hybrids.



The chip amp was built by Mick Maloney of Supratek.Not to market
but
just out of curiosity and for a specific task.

if this is who you are referring to above, then I have to confess
that I
can't recall having heard his name before. However the alleged "fame"
of
the designer may have no real relationship to do with the actual
quality
of
the products.

I loaned my other chip amp -a Sonic Art 3876T kit to an audiophile
friend who owns and has owned all sorts of monster SS amps
incuding
Pass Labs Aleph 3,Plinius,Audio Research,Luxman,M.E.850,HSA single
ended,Sugden A 21 as well as Bel Canto and ICE digital type amps.
He
also agrees that this thing is a real giant killer and better than
any
non valve amp he has heard.[This was using a valve preamp and
efficient
speakers] So i am not the only delusional one.

It does not surprise me particulary if someone decides that some amps
using
'chips' sound as good or better as other types. What I have found
odder
is
the predjudices people have on such grounds without having either
tried
the
items in question, or having any understanding of the engineering
involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim,


Do a Supratek search in Audiogon.There is plenty of info in their
dicussion forums.
Or search reviews in 6 Moons.
Or visit the Supratek site.

**Mr Maloney appears to eschew quoting even basic specifications for his
equipment. What is he hiding?

You seem to be under the impression that a bunch of people raving about
a
product, automatically confer some kind of status of the product and
it's
designer. It doesn't work that way. If it did, Bose would be the best
audio
products on the planet. After all, Bose avoid quoting specs too. Mr
Maloney
certainly builds attractive products, which are based on obsolete
technology
and are priced at a level which makes strong men weep. If he can make
money
out of it, then good luck to him. For me, I demand some basic specs from
any
manufacturer, before I take him seriously.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Mick Maloney is probably more like Ken Ishawata.

**I very much doubt that. I've had some long conversations with Ken
Ishiwata. He REALLY knows his stuff.

He takes competent
designs which he develops in conjunction with New York audio engineer
Kevin Covi and fine tunes them so they not only measure well but also
sound good.

**Then why does he not publish any measurements of his equipment?

There are plenty of products that measure well but sound
terrible.

**Name them.

His fine tuning may even result in products that don't measure
as well [like some of Ken Ishawatas modifications] .This is pure
speculation of course.

**Indeed. You seem to engage in quite a bit of that.

Most of his clients couldn't care less about how well they measure.

**Irrelevant.

I
have never,however heard from anywhere that they don't,and I know that
he takes great care in running each of his products for an extended
period on his test bench before sending them off to his customers.

**And yet there are no useful specs listed on his site for any of his
equipment.

Obsolete technology?

**Yup.

If anything is obsolete technology it is the monster transistor amps
you seem to love.

**Projection. I don't "love" objects.

These are the real dinasaurs of audio.

**Uh-huh. Tell us more.


JT



So valves are obsolete technology?

**Of course. There is nothing (in audio) that can be done with valves,
that cannot be achieved with transistors. With the possible exception of
the gradual wearing out of valves from the instant they are switched on.
...............

Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Gee Trevor, I've yet to figure out how some manufacturer's of SS equipment
manage to design that "timebomb" into their gear which magically goes off
just after the warranty expires. :-(

I have two multi-channel power amps which just after the 5 year warranty ran
out developed exactly the same fault (within a week of each other) in
exactly the same channel (left-rear). The in-built protection fortunately
activates protecting the speakers from damage as the output gets stuck hard
to the -ve supply rail. No components are faulty but exactly the same PCB
tracks develop dry joints which produced the fault. I just wish I knew more
people with the same model amp to compare notes to see just how widespread
the same fault may be.

Cheers,
Alan