"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does not need to be
wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Arny. Why do you choose to call people who use/enjoy tube amps
"bigots" Is this in keeping with your new-born Christian beliefs?

Iain

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference for an
intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of distortion. Nothing
wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as inherently
superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and nothing else
could only be made by somebody with a) very little knowledge of modern
valve circuits and how they sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated by
tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of who
have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."

end of quote.

Iain

In article .com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
My "straw man argument" detector just triggered. :-) Slainte, Jim

I was hoping for something along the lines of:

"carefully presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent's
argument is not always itself a fallacy. Instead, it restricts the scope
of the opponent's argument, either to where the argument is no longer
relevant or as a step of a proof by exhaustion".

It is not a "weakened form" to write an opinion of your own and then
pretend it was what someone else wrote. I wrote what I meant, you
made up something else to argue with.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently: quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated by tube
amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of who have speakers at
10k a pair) are highly discerning."

Was "top" a subjective judgement, or a comment on the prices and
his markup profits for "very high end" equipment? :-)

Afraid I don't have any 10k speakers. Do two pairs of ESLs count?[1]

Or would it be silly of me to confuse the price of the equipment with the
levels of musical enjoyment or 'discernment' of the listener?... ;-

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Come to think of it, does a pair of ESL988's register as '10k'
in whatever monetary units you had in mind? Would I be more discerning
if I emigrated to Zimbabwe? 8-] ... or did you mean 10k Ohms, and
speakers which allow the user to avoid an output transformer on the
valve amp? ;-

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Andy. That sounds like a temptation too great for Keith to resist:-)
Can you tell us more about DHT preamp valves, please.

DHT small tubes were made in the 20s and 30s in large numbers, and some
after that until all production died out eventually. All that is
available today is NOS (with one or two boutique exceptions - may be
useful for high end), unlike DHT large tubes which are still in
production (300b etc). Apart from availability they have two problems
which need to be overcome:
a) They can be microphonic, from airborne/chassis induced vibrations.
Users need to find a solution for this, which includes mass in the
chassis, decoupling feet, O rings, differential stages instead of SE,
or any combination.
b) Although they run off good DC like a bench supply, to sound their
best they need a sophisticated filament supply including a current
source.

When you have dealt with the above you are rewarded with a clarity and
delicacy which gets quite addictive - you can't go back to directly
heated small tubes, judging by the colleagues I have that use them. You
then start to stockpile the little buggers since they are shooting up
in price. I have 500 so I'm pretty future proof, and that's about the
numbers my friends have stockpiled too. I'm counting on the fact that
they're an investment - hope I'm correct. They're certainly getting
more expensive month by month almost. Dealers still have some, but it's
usually ebay.

Many are familiar with sticking a DHT at the end of the amplification
chain, but put it right at the start in the preamp and it makes even
more of a difference. Andy

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Andy. That sounds like a temptation too great for Keith to resist:-)
Can you tell us more about DHT preamp valves, please.

DHT small tubes were made in the 20s and 30s in large numbers, and some
after that until all production died out eventually. All that is
available today is NOS (with one or two boutique exceptions - may be
useful for high end), unlike DHT large tubes which are still in
production (300b etc). Apart from availability they have two problems
which need to be overcome:
a) They can be microphonic, from airborne/chassis induced vibrations.
Users need to find a solution for this, which includes mass in the
chassis, decoupling feet, O rings, differential stages instead of SE,
or any combination.
b) Although they run off good DC like a bench supply, to sound their
best they need a sophisticated filament supply including a current
source.

When you have dealt with the above you are rewarded with a clarity and
delicacy which gets quite addictive - you can't go back to directly
heated small tubes, judging by the colleagues I have that use them. You
then start to stockpile the little buggers since they are shooting up
in price. I have 500 so I'm pretty future proof, and that's about the
numbers my friends have stockpiled too. I'm counting on the fact that
they're an investment - hope I'm correct. They're certainly getting
more expensive month by month almost. Dealers still have some, but it's
usually ebay.

Many are familiar with sticking a DHT at the end of the amplification
chain, but put it right at the start in the preamp and it makes even
more of a difference. Andy


Andy. Now you have got me interested. Can you supply some type
numbers to look out for?

So far, the most sonically rewarding valve I have found is the 6SN7.
It has none of the problems you mention above, and so I wonder what
extra benefits you get from DHT to offset the construction problems.

Cheers
Iain

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

Clipping *is* to be deprecated you know.

Tell that to the people who produced 80% of the last, say, 100 CDs I've
MP3'd to HDD.....

Bloody DJs and their ilk most likely.


No, I'm talking about commercial CDs here - as bought 'off the shelf'.....


The thorn in the flesh of pro-audio.


Which, of course, is not what this group's about.....

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. ..

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference for an
intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of distortion. Nothing
wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as inherently
superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and nothing else
could only be made by somebody with a) very little knowledge of modern
valve circuits and how they sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated by
tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of who
have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."


No more so than some of us nearer the *bottom* of the pond, I would hope!!
;-)

Iain - these DHTs are quite a bit better than a 6SN7. I'd suggest you
try this for home use rather than studio at this stage, and see how you
get on. the usual recommendation is the 26 because it's good and
plentiful. Personally I find it warm (think 300b - but some colleagues
like this fuller sound), so prefer the leaner sounds of the 30 and 31,
which are cheaper than the more widely used 01A, 12A and such. There's
a family resemblence anyway, so you won't go far wrong. I don't think
it's neessary to splash out on the 71A or 10Y though they have their
fans. There are a stack of European DHTs as well, and one or two
octals, plus some double triodes (loctal, octal, 7 pin bases) which
have a common cathode. Lastly there's the wire leadout miniature 5676.
I have all the above.

Email me if you want details of the filament supply we're currently
using. We're trying to make some PCBs for the filamant supply, should
come through in a month or two. Andy

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. ..

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference for an
intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of distortion. Nothing
wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as inherently
superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and nothing else
could only be made by somebody with a) very little knowledge of modern
valve circuits and how they sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated by
tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of who
have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."


No more so than some of us nearer the *bottom* of the pond, I would hope!!
;-)



No indeed. But it illustrates that those with *both* impeccable
taste *and* lashings of the elusive spondoolicks pick valve amps.
For them, unlike the rest of us, it's not down to DIY, fettling
or e.Bay:-))

Iain