In article , Keith G
wrote:

The problem here is the 'producers' (pros/retired pros/self-styled pros
who aren't really pros/wannabee pros who never will be pros) can't even
create a neutral product. Never mind that they should try to dictate
what we, the consumers, do with it once we've bought it....

Indeed. The snag, though, is that the results vary from one CD/LP/broadcast
to another. I don't listen and think I can hear 'valves' or 'DHT' or 'solid
state'. I want each LP/CD/broadcast to sound as I'd expect for the
individual source.

The odd thing is that despite all the arguments, and the only valve in my
systems being a CRT for the display for video where appropriate, the
results tend to sound like music to me, and I enjoy them.

My experience is that when I listen to something like a prom from the RAH
it sounds to me a lot like what I heard when I attended them in person. So
much so that listening to the music gives me great pleasure. I don't seem
to need any valves, etc, to get this result.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
All it has to do is sound as *realistic* as possible for me - that's
*my* realistic, not anyone else's and it definitely helps if I can hear
*all* of the voices, *all* of the words (where applicable) and *all* of
the instruments. Keith.

Keith, you're definitely heading for one of my small-DHT preamps - I
can give you all the kit bits cheap and you can assemble it. Don't ask
me why, but these small DHTs have a clarity I don't find in any other
amplification stage. You have a little treat in store. Andy



OK. I have read the thread and Iain's dead right - this is temptation
indeed!

When I built the 2A3 LW SET I built a 'power amp only'version to avoid
problems in the pre-amp stage (it was my first scratch build) and because
I already had/have an EAR 834L Line Stage. The EAR has been boxed up ready
for eBaying/posting for a while now (haven't got round to it yet) as Swim
jumped on the sound for *veiled* every damn time I tried to use it!! The
trouble with the 2A3 is that it does need a little pre-ing to prevent the
need to push it too hard. Lately I have been using a nice Denon amp's pre
section to do this with great effect and also the bonus of remote control
for 'volume' &c. but what you suggest is very interesting....

Email me with some details and an idea of cost (pix too, if you have any)
but bear in mind if I do have a go it will be the basis for a webpage like
this!

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/trio...de_project.htm

;-)

That's the very least you can, do Keith:-)

I too would be interested to try Andy's ideas. I am planning at some
stage to build a SET, but had thought to use a 6SN7. The idea of a
DHT triode front end appeals enormously.

Iain

Email me with some details and an idea of cost (pix too, if you have
any)
but bear in mind if I do have a go it will be the basis for a webpage
like
this!

It's a deal. you can then see what I've been talking about! I'll email
you the details. Andy

It is not a "weakened form" to write an opinion of your own and then
pretend it was what someone else wrote. I wrote what I meant, you
made up something else to argue with. Slainte, Jim

I'm just that kind of a guy - charismatic, unpredictable,
bohemian............. Andy

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does
not need to be wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Arny. Why do you choose to call people who use/enjoy tube
amps "bigots" Is this in keeping with your new-born
Christian beliefs?

Just calling things what I see them to be. I guess Iain would prefer that
I lie or obfuscate.


It hasn't bothered you up to now, Arny, so why change? :-)

In my experience tube amp owners are one of the most contented
groups of people with an interest in audio and music.
As Peter Lewis put it, "Happiness is a warm cathode" :-)

Regards
Iain

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you
come on here and tell me how many times it clipped....

Just trying to explain why it sounded so bad.


OK. Arny. Time to bow to your expertise.
Bad sound is indeed something you *do* know all
about:-)

Iain

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference
for an intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of
distortion. Nothing wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as
inherently superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and
nothing else could only be made by somebody with a) very
little knowledge of modern valve circuits and how they
sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.


A Swedish "very high end" dealer told me just recently:
quote:

" The very top of the audio market is totally dominated
by tube amplifiers. Music lovers in this sector (many of
who have speakers at 10k a pair) are highly discerning."

In short, he has a lot of respect for people that pay his way.

Proves nothing.

Once again, Arny your analysis of the situation is sadly
innacurate. The man sells no white goods, home theatre
or cheapo SS equipment. He has a well-healed discerning
client base, most of whom choose valve audio. It's that simple.


Iain

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a
well-known high end audio show, listening to bunches and
bunches of this crap. Did I say that it was crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps or 70s transistor equipment?

Actually, new production valve amps.

Or are you saying there were a *lot* of new valve amps
there?

Yes.

If there were it would tell us something - your
not liking them means nothing to me, almost certainly
nothing to the manufacturers or even the rest of the
world probably....?? ;-)

Fact is the matter is that almost nobody likes this crap - just a few
poorly-educated, well-funded, obsessive-compulsives.



Denial of this magnitude is almost impressive, but your theories lose out
to the *facts* reported by Iain, I'm sorry to say....


I don't read hi-fi reviews, but listen carefully to what dealers tell me.
They are not trying to sell me anything, but they do have their finger
on the pulse, and know precisely what products are in demand.
The fact that in Stockholm one can buy a Krell at -30% while there
is a longish waiting list for Conrad Johnson, speaks volumes.

Iain

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a
well-known high end audio show, listening to bunches and
bunches of this crap. Did I say that it was crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps or 70s transistor equipment?

Actually, new production valve amps.

Or are you saying there were a *lot* of new valve amps
there?

Yes.

If there were it would tell us something - your
not liking them means nothing to me, almost certainly
nothing to the manufacturers or even the rest of the
world probably....?? ;-)

Fact is the matter is that almost nobody likes this crap - just a few
poorly-educated, well-funded, obsessive-compulsives.

Arny. I don't know what the situation is in your part of the world,
but here in Scandinavia, where people probably have more disposable
income, and hopefully a higher level of taste/expectation, tube amps
have the majority market share at the very top end of the market.

I am told that this group includes professional people, doctors,
lawyers, and many musicians, so they hardly fit into your
"poorly-educated, well-funded, obsessive-compulsives"
category.

No cigar this time, either, Arny:-)

Iain

Iain Churches wrote:

The balance is in chaos. Then comes the question;
" How do I get more drums?" :-))

Easy - turn everything else down and balance the speakers on your shoulders.
;-)


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
You're unique - just like everybody else.