"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote

snip ********

What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does not need to be
wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and
tell
me how many times it clipped....

No he didn't.



Yes he did, often - before your time....

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a well-known high end
audio
show, listening to bunches and bunches of this crap. Did I say that it
was
crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps

'Legacy' valve amps are currently being manufactured.



Eeyor, you got some catching up to do. I'm taking the **** out of Arny, I
don't consider 'legacy amps' and 70s transistor stuff to be crap - Arny
does, he's on it all the time. I have a pair of great-sounding amps that are
about 40 years old and the 2A3 SET I built a year or two back is based on a
1929 design...!!




or 70s transistor equipment?

70s transistor equipment was last manufactured in then ummm.... errrrr...
70s !


Or are you saying there were a *lot* of new valve amps there? If there
were
it would tell us something - your not liking them means nothing to me,
almost certainly nothing to the manufacturers or even the rest of the
world
probably....?? ;-)

There is essentially no 'new' tube design possible due to the serious
fundamental limitations of the devices. Any significant advances
terminated in
the 50s.


So what? Most modern hanguns are based on designs well over 100 years old -
they only got new versions on old themes, excep the ones that haven't really
changed at all...

Eeyore wrote:

I really sometimes wonder what the audiophool nuts reckon audio
professionals do for a living ?

Maybe they missed the fact that it isn't audiophools who actually
make the recordings, mix them down, master them and press them ? Only
then do the terminally clueless get a chance to think they can
somehow make it better than the original, which may have passed
through a thousand well-designed op-amp stages on its way to its
destination !

Are you saying that all "audio professionals" produce nothing but peerless
recordings which cannot be improved upon?


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
You're unique - just like everybody else.

"Eeyore" wrote


snip crap


I really sometimes wonder what the audiophool nuts reckon audio
professionals do
for a living ?



Well, according to some sources, they could turn one of Beethoven's bottled
farts into his 10th Symphony if they wanted to, but let's not go there...




Maybe they missed the fact that it isn't audiophools who actually make the
recordings, mix them down, master them and press them ?



Steady on - you'll be giving the Fidelity Freaks a heart attack at this
rate....!!


Only then do the
terminally clueless get a chance to think they can somehow make it better
than
the original, which may have passed through a thousand well-designed
op-amp
stages on its way to its destination !


Call me a **** if you like, but I take hold of a record (even a CD
occasionally) and I consider it a *product* and all I want to do is get the
best of it - I don't terribly care what the conductor had for breakfast on
the morning of the recording session or what it smelled like in the
recording studio. All it has to do is sound as *realistic* as possible for
me - that's *my* realistic, not anyone else's and it definitely helps if I
can hear *all* of the voices, *all* of the words (where applicable) and
*all* of the instruments. I know from my own *personal experience* that a
lot of the so-called modern, blameless, low-distortion kit on modern
speakers just *doesn't do that*......!!

OK...??

Wally wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

I really sometimes wonder what the audiophool nuts reckon audio
professionals do for a living ?

Maybe they missed the fact that it isn't audiophools who actually
make the recordings, mix them down, master them and press them ? Only
then do the terminally clueless get a chance to think they can
somehow make it better than the original, which may have passed
through a thousand well-designed op-amp stages on its way to its
destination !

Are you saying that all "audio professionals" produce nothing but peerless
recordings which cannot be improved upon?

It's simply anyone's opinion as to whether the original recording was peerless
or not. You can be pretty confident that those ppl doing the job are better at
it than you might be though.

As to improving on it - my opinion is quite simple. You can 'modify' it to suit
your taste but it is what it is, warts and all.

Certainly no particular 'flavour' of circuitry will produce an impeccable result
everytime when fed with varying quality of source material. The method I favour
is to aim for neutrality in reproduction and accept such flaws as exist as they
are rather than try to 'paint them out' and lose all the good bits in the
process.

Graham

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and
tell me how many times it clipped....

No he didn't.

Yes he did, often - before your time....

But not in this thread.

Clipping *is* to be deprecated you know.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and
tell me how many times it clipped....

No he didn't.

Yes he did, often - before your time....

But not in this thread.


I can't help that - we can't start ukra from scratch just because you've
turned up....



Clipping *is* to be deprecated you know.



Tell that to the people who produced 80% of the last, say, 100 CDs I've
MP3'd to HDD.....

No, make that 80% of the 1,500 albums I've got MP3'd.....

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote
"Keith G" wrote

You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a well-known high end
audio show, listening to bunches and bunches of this crap. Did I say
that it was crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps

'Legacy' valve amps are currently being manufactured.

Eeyor, you got some catching up to do. I'm taking the **** out of Arny, I
don't consider 'legacy amps' and 70s transistor stuff to be crap

Plenty of both *are* though.


- Arny
does, he's on it all the time. I have a pair of great-sounding amps that are
about 40 years old and the 2A3 SET I built a year or two back is based on a
1929 design...!!

Have you ever tried say a well-designed mosfet amp for comparison ?

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
Keith G wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote
"Keith G" wrote

You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a well-known high end
audio show, listening to bunches and bunches of this crap. Did I say
that it was crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps

'Legacy' valve amps are currently being manufactured.

Eeyor, you got some catching up to do. I'm taking the **** out of Arny, I
don't consider 'legacy amps' and 70s transistor stuff to be crap

Plenty of both *are* though.



Sure, but not *all* simply by token of being old....




- Arny
does, he's on it all the time. I have a pair of great-sounding amps that
are
about 40 years old and the 2A3 SET I built a year or two back is based on
a
1929 design...!!

Have you ever tried say a well-designed mosfet amp for comparison ?


Not sure that I have - there's been a lot of stuff through here in the last
few years....

Recommend one and I'll see if I can get hold of one.

Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

snip crap

I really sometimes wonder what the audiophool nuts reckon audio
professionals do for a living ?

Well, according to some sources, they could turn one of Beethoven's bottled
farts into his 10th Symphony if they wanted to, but let's not go there...

Those sources haven't a clue. It does however sound like a popular audiophool
misrepresentation.


Maybe they missed the fact that it isn't audiophools who actually make the
recordings, mix them down, master them and press them ?

Steady on - you'll be giving the Fidelity Freaks a heart attack at this
rate....!!

Only then do the
terminally clueless get a chance to think they can somehow make it better
than
the original, which may have passed through a thousand well-designed
op-amp
stages on its way to its destination !

Call me a **** if you like, but I take hold of a record (even a CD
occasionally) and I consider it a *product* and all I want to do is get the
best of it - I don't terribly care what the conductor had for breakfast on
the morning of the recording session or what it smelled like in the
recording studio. All it has to do is sound as *realistic* as possible for
me - that's *my* realistic, not anyone else's and it definitely helps if I
can hear *all* of the voices, *all* of the words (where applicable) and
*all* of the instruments. I know from my own *personal experience* that a
lot of the so-called modern, blameless, low-distortion kit on modern
speakers just *doesn't do that*......!!

OK...??

That's just fine.

I've never had any issue with anyone who chooses to use electronics creatively
to alter the listening experience to suit their taste as long as they're honest
about it.

What does offend me is those who present 'their way' as the only true one and
are wholly dishonest about the methods they use and then present them as
'superior' to the path of neutral accuracy.

Neutral, as I've hinted at a couple of times isn't always maybe the 'easiest
listening experience' but it can be a true revalation.

Do you have Joni Mitchell's Blue btw ? It has a number of flaws imho but it's
well worth listening to 'straight'. I use it as one of my regular references as
it happens.

Graham