Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

One question is,

"Can you tell the difference, in a double blind test, between an
Audiophile humming Old Langs Syne and an Engineer humming it."

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 06:19:20 -0700, Andy Evans
wrote:

One question is,

"Can you tell the difference, in a double blind test, between an
Audiophile humming Old Langs Syne and an Engineer humming it."


Another easy one. The engineer will hum it in tune.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

"Can you tell the difference, in a double blind test, between an
Audiophile humming Old Langs Syne and an Engineer humming it."

Another easy one. The engineer will hum it in tune.

Presumably the Audiophile will hum it with more feeling and claim that
this is more important than humming it in tune!

Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Andre-

One, I'm sorry I got sucked into this thread, so this will be my last
entry into it.

In my career I've managed a couple of hundred audio engineers ranging
from superb to poor. Each has had unique skills and abilities, and I
always thought it was my responsibility to provide an environment
appropriate to bring out their best. Collectively they have done very
specials things on billions of dollars of projects, including
specialty component designs. Every system reflects a bit of the
character of its designer.

I once worked with a guy that couldn't get his EPSON printer to work
with his computer- he spent literally hundreds of hours perplexed over
the problem, including sending the printer back to Japan. Turned out
it was a bad cable he had hand made. What an idiot!

His name was Dick Heyser, a name you should know if you have any
pretense of being in this business. Besides reprogramming America's
satellites in orbit, he spent this spare time inventing Time Delay
Spectrometry, the TEF analyzer, writing for Audio Magazine, and his
created own math transform. Smartest guy I've ever met. There's a
reason the highest honor the Audio Engineering Society named their
award after him.

I can't help but think you've never experienced working on an
engineering and production team and likely never will with your
issues, clearly having nothing to do with providing the world with
better audio.

If you don't know of what you speak, it may be best to shut your pie
hole. Or in your case, your keyboard. Unless you plan on apologizing
to those you've insulted first.

"Why are engineers the ugliest people in the world?" -- Time Magazine, was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

wrote:

Andre-

One, I'm sorry I got sucked into this thread, so this will be my last
entry into it.

Nah, anonymous "emmaco", you didn't get sucked in, you read the
headline, misunderstood it, and without discovering the facts dived
into the staked pit face-first, fully justifying the Time Magazine
rhetorical question, "Why are engineers the ugliest people in the
world?"

In my career I've managed a couple of hundred audio engineers ranging
from superb to poor. Each has had unique skills and abilities, and I
always thought it was my responsibility to provide an environment
appropriate to bring out their best. Collectively they have done very
specials things on billions of dollars of projects, including
specialty component designs. Every system reflects a bit of the
character of its designer.

So why don't you tell me your name so I can check your claims? This is
the third time of asking, and still no name, only anonymous bragging.

I once worked with a guy that couldn't get his EPSON printer to work
with his computer- he spent literally hundreds of hours perplexed over
the problem, including sending the printer back to Japan. Turned out
it was a bad cable he had hand made. What an idiot!

So you say. I might say he's a perfectionist. I once spent several
hundred hours rewriting 43 thick volumes of instructions for an early
computer that irritated me by their obscure prolixity into a single
slender volume; my obsessively fat-pared version was so much more
effective, the manufacturer gave it way with the computer.

His name was Dick Heyser,

It figures that a jumped-up, self-important bureaucrat like you would
call Dick Heyser "an idiot".

a name you should know if you have any
pretense of being in this business.

I'm not in your business except peripherally, thought it is true that
to those with terminal cases of inferiority complex, like you, I seem
to leave hairy footprints.

But in this instance I merely objected to people who call themselves
engineers lying about physics, and of course I object to blustering
fools like you trying to protect them by swingeing attacks on me.

Besides reprogramming America's
satellites in orbit, he spent this spare time inventing Time Delay
Spectrometry, the TEF analyzer, writing for Audio Magazine, and his
created own math transform. Smartest guy I've ever met.

Make up your mind, will you? Just now you called Heyser "an idiot".

There's a
reason the highest honor the Audio Engineering Society named their
award after him.

Indeed; those guys got that one right.

I can't help but think you've never experienced working on an
engineering and production team

You're wrong. But then your unfounded and unproven assumptions about
so much else are so invariably wrong, I've given up expecting sense
from you, anonymous "emmaco".

and likely never will with your
issues,

Do you know, anonymous "emmaco", in another of my professions they
will drum you out of the profession for snap diagnoses on zero
evidence such as you are so fond of.

clearly having nothing to do with providing the world with
better audio.

That's a matter of opinion. My netsite
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
comes rather well recommended by people who aren't afraid to sign
their own names:
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Leading me to ask once more, who are you, anonymous "emmacocao"?

If you don't know of what you speak,

You have failed to prove a single element of which I spoke in
ignorance, whereas we see, again in this post, that you vomit out
opinions without foundation, without adducing argument, without
reason. Hey, sonny, an engineer might be no more than mechanical
appendix to science, a sort of jumped-up handyman, except not so
versatile as a real craftsman, but that doesn't relieve you of the
necessity of observing and respecting scientific method, in particular
the rules of proof. If you're looking for a digestible introduction to
scientific method, let me recommend to you the books of Karl Popper.

it may be best to shut your pie
hole.

What did you say your name was again, anonymous "emmaco"? Lysenko?
Will the jackboots come for me in the night for contradicting you? I
have news for you, sonny: sovereign governments, including the
apartheid government, eminently competent at violence, sent assassins
after me, and I returned one lot maimed for life as a message not to
**** with me, the next lot in boxes, and followed that up with a
threat to the government minister who sent them (I thought it amusing
to do it on Chrismas morning) that had him interrupting my mother's
holiday lunch to beg for the lives of his family. Squadrons of little
pompass engineers (holy ****, engineers, guys with protectors and
coloured pencils in their pockets!) don't cause the slightest shiver
up my backbone.

Or in your case, your keyboard.

My keyboard is definitely mightier than the sword, as I just
demonstrated.

Unless you plan on apologizing
to those you've insulted first.

Yes, I understand. If I grovel and crawl to the "engineers", among
whom I have now firmly placed you, I can spout any old crap, and you
guys will gather round and shout down anyone who contradicts me.

No thanks, I don't need that sort of pernicious "solidarity".

Unless you plan on apologizing
to those you've insulted first.

Furthermore, this is where we came in, where you lied that I offended
all engineers, whereas, as I have told you three times already, you
functional illiterate, I insulted only three particular "engineers",
whom I named and apostrophized to distinguish them from the many sound
engineers I know, and now you, of course, for obvious cause, because
you are thick and obdurate and offensive and stupid and illiterate.

I'm sorry I got sucked into this thread, so this will be my last
entry into it.

You don't have what it takes to enter rational discussion. You don't
even have the balls or the wit to conduct a minor flame war, anonymous
"emmacopout".

I'm sorry I got sucked into this thread, so this will be my last
entry into it.

Run, rabbit, run.

Flicked off my thumb like a piece of snot.

Unsigned out of contempt

PS Jesus Christ! Is this uncomprehending twit anonymous "emmaco" the
best champion you guys on rec.audio.pro can put forward for the
"honour" of engineers? What are you professionals at, then? Lying,
simpering and expecting unearned flattery?

"Why are engineers the ugliest people in the world?" -- Time Magazine, was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

Name's John Mayberry. Dick Heyser was a friend. Also taught me how
to use his new machine back in the early 80's.

www.emmaco.com if you'd like to compare professional
accomplishments.

I bet I specified more A/V equipment this week than you've ever
touched in your life.

We're in San Marino, California. It was sunny and warm today.

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I was at a board meeting for
the LA Chapter of the Audio Engineering Society last night on XM
Satellite radio audio and data transmission. Sadly, we missed you
there, and at the SMPTE and Acoustical Society recent meetings as
well. Everyone was asking, "Where is that wonderful Andre Jute? The
world just doesn't rotate without him..."

You might want to read my monthly column in Systems Contractor News.
Inside back cover for the last 14 years. You might have recognized
the email address had you ever worked in this business.

"Why are engineers the ugliest people in the world?" -- Time Magazine, was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

I picked one of your website topics at random just to see what talent
resides within... I chose

"Point source speakers"

You selected the Lowther Fidelio as your example. This is a folded
transmission line speaker enclosure using the EX2 drive unit with
integral phase plug.

In no way is this a good example of a point source loudspeaker.

The phase plug "equalizer" alone would disqualify it, let alone
loading the woofer with the complex acoustic impedance of a
transmission line. Think about what that plug is doing- changing the
path length of the signal transmission in order to lower the
directivity index and decrease on axis beaming. They are commonly
used in professional audio (see Engebretson's Altec Tangerine phase
plug paper from the early '70s for reference) compression horn
tweeters. The device has a number of different copyrighted names, but
the effect is the same- signal smearing.

The Nyquist plot of this speaker is going to be all over the place, as
will the polar plot as a result.

You really need to do your homework and crack open the textbooks to at
least understand what makes up a point source loudspeaker prior to
pontificating on it. Don Davis's Sound System Engineering might be a
good start.

"Why are engineers the ugliest people in the world?" -- Time Magazine, was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

On Nov 1, 2:11 am, " wrote:
Name's John Mayberry. Dick Heyser was a friend. Also taught me how
to use his new machine back in the early 80's.

Well, howdedo. I'm more impressed by the names you drop than by your
unprofessionally aggressive behaviour.

www.emmaco.comif you'd like to compare professional
accomplishments.

Good God, no. Now that you have, at last, told me your name, I have no
desire to go check on you. A gentleman takes others at their word.

if you'd like to compare professional
accomplishments.

As for the invitation "cocks on the table", I have nothing to prove,
and I'm sure you'll stop trying to prove something to me as soon as
you recover your confidence.

I bet I specified more A/V equipment this week than you've ever
touched in your life.

Absolutely! I don't operate machines. I don't even know what "A/V
equipment" is. I generally, since the days I was a soldier who
couldn't be bothered to carry firearms, just tell people what I want
achieved and let them choose and operate the machines; that's what one
has engineers for; they should earn their keep.

We're in San Marino, California. It was sunny and warm today.

Super. I have lived in the Irish countryside for over a quarter-
century; I was the first in my line of business to go entirely
electronic, goodbye big office, goodbye paper. Today I took a call
from a client who inherited me from his father, 37 years of annual
retainers, cycled for a couple of hours, took steam and for another
couple of hours lay in my bath with a jug of Campari-soda reading a
novel by one of my protege, then dined at The Snug in Bantry to escape
the Halloweenies and lawyers and accountants who are keen to finalize
tax accounts, due date, er, yesterday. Most of my days are of course
not that highly pressured.

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier. I was at a board meeting for
the LA Chapter of the Audio Engineering Society last night on XM
Satellite radio audio and data transmission. Sadly, we missed you
there, and at the SMPTE and Acoustical Society recent meetings as
well. Everyone was asking, "Where is that wonderful Andre Jute? The
world just doesn't rotate without him..."

I'm impressed with their discrimination, no doubt gently guided by
you, as always, to the right decision.

But I'm amazed that a man as important as you has to go to meetings to
get things done. It is decades since I last went anywhere; those who
want me face to face come here.

You might want to read my monthly column in Systems Contractor News.
Inside back cover for the last 14 years.

I'll have to ask someone who deals with techies what Systems
Contractor News is, but I'm sure it is very, very important in your
trade.

You might have recognized
the email address had you ever worked in this business.

I'm still not sure what business it is you're in. Do you sall
apoplectic bluster?

Andre Jute
Compared to this guy, my middle name is "Humility"!

"Why are engineers the ugliest people in the world?" -- Time Magazine, was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

On Nov 1, 2:49 am, " wrote:
I picked one of your website topics at random just to see what talent
resides within... I chose

Ooh, that should bring some excitement to your day. But, tell me, Mr
Mayberry, wouldn't your wife and children prefer you rather to keep
your mind on earning a living?

"Point source speakers"

I wrote about point source speakers? Well, you can knock me over with
a feather.

You selected the Lowther Fidelio as your example. This is a folded
transmission line speaker enclosure using the EX2 drive unit with
integral phase plug.

Erm. It's a dual-channel horn; the horn is behind the driver, rather
than in front of it as in the sort of PA speakers you are no doubt
used to. Once you know that, perhaps you will wish to work out the
expansion without me telling you, just to show how much smarter than
me you are. There's a good picture of a Fidelio-type horn under
construction in my studio somewhere on my netsite.

In no way is this a good example of a point source loudspeaker.

Perhaps not from your perspective. I imagine Fidelio enclosures and
Lowther drivers would be a bit expensive for your system.

The phase plug "equalizer" alone would disqualify it, let alone
loading the woofer with the complex acoustic impedance of a
transmission line.

Do you really think so? Even better, do you really think that, given
the fact that you have already failed to bully me into submission, I
care **** what you think?

Think about what that plug is doing- changing the
path length of the signal transmission in order to lower the
directivity index and decrease on axis beaming. They are commonly
used in professional audio (see Engebretson's Altec Tangerine phase
plug paper from the early '70s for reference) compression horn
tweeters.

That's what techies are useful for, Mayberry. Why don't you make us a
precis of the paper and we'll decide if it is relevant or perhaps
interesting even if irrelevant.

The device has a number of different copyrighted names, but
the effect is the same- signal smearing.

The Nyquist plot of this speaker is going to be all over the place, as
will the polar plot as a result.

Actually, I own a couple of pairs of Fidelio with PM6A. I don't need
some clown who's never heard or seen one telling me what "this speaker
is going to be", I already know.

You really need to do your homework and crack open the textbooks to at
least understand what makes up a point source loudspeaker prior to
pontificating on it.

Crap. A point source speaker creates a sound emanating or seeming to
emanate from a single point. The "seeming: to take account of my Quad
ESL63 with their faux point source.

Don Davis's Sound System Engineering might be a
good start.

What a pedantic waste of time you are, Mayberry. Didn't it occur to
your cramped mind that I own these speakers and have measured them
but, even better, listened to them? Who cares about a "good start"
when you can instead make a permanently satisfying finish?

Are we done yet?

Andre Jute
"I was at a board meeting for the LA Chapter of the Audio Engineering
Society last night on XM Satellite radio audio and data transmission.
Sadly, we missed you there, and at the SMPTE and Acoustical Society
recent meetings as well. Everyone was asking, 'Where is that wonderful
Andre Jute? The world just doesn't rotate without him...'" -- John
Mayberry, Emmaco

"Why are engineers the ugliest people in the world?" -- Time Magazine, was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?
 

John:

You are mud-wrestling with a pig. It serves no purpose and the pig
enjoys it. Andre is an irredeemable hack with just enough knowledge to
be dangerous, but not enough to have learned anything of significance
or note. He has a "way with language" much as Don Joan has a "way with
women", but with about the same general results - nothing.

So, let it rest. When Andre is unchallenged he spouts rubbish and
pretense. When he is challenged he lies. And his general habit is to
repeat the lie ad nauseum in the hopes that if it is read often enough
some poor benighted fool might come to believe it - perhaps he might
even come to believe it himself.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA