"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message


Hmm. In comparisons, brighter, just like louder, is
found by many to be better. One also needs to compare
both with a real clarinet, to decide which sounds more
like the real thing.

The fallacy here is that a clarinet has only one timbre.
In fact, its timbre is highly dependent on its
environment.

The clarinet has three very distinctive timbres
irrespective of "environment" (did you mean acoustic?) They are
associated with the three registers: the first,
"chalumeau" up to Bb4 , the second "clarion" from B4 to C6. The third,
altissimo covers about two octaves above C6.
They all sound totally different, irrespective of
"environment" Much of what Keith recorded is clarion.

Good to see that you were able to study up and correct yourself, Iain.

He achieved a pretty good sound IMO even though he
probably didn't have access to any tutorial info. But he
listens to a lot of good music, and probably hears the
clarinet at home on a daily basis, and so knows how it
really sounds.


A clarinet is made of wood, not glass:-)

Based on the recordings that Iain has brought to us, his
monitoring system is on the bright side.

Note that Iain has no response to this issue.

My *reference
system* on this PC is a pair of ATH-M50 headphones, well
known for their neutrality.

So you evaluate on headphones?

I evaluate using the appropriate reproducer and sonic environment for the
purpose. One key to production is knowing how a short list of common
reproducers and environments translate into a synthetic baseline system.
Headphones are good to have on that list because they tend to be less
dependent on the working environment and are more portable.

Try a pair of B+W 802D loudspeakers, the choice of most
UK recording companies.

If you haven't noticed Iain, I live in the US where most of the studio
monitors aren't B&W.

Again Iain's problem is that he's judging a quick shot
for the purpose of guidance as if it were a finished
recording, and probably doing so on a playback system
that would be too bright for me.

An unkinder man than I might suggest that you are piling
on the HF to compensate for hearing loss.

Iain, my benchmark evaluating my ring loss is whether or not I obtain
results that are amenable to far younger and often female people who are
hearing the same thing that I do. I've always suspected that you prefer the
rolled-off music that you seem to prefer because you can't hear what you are
missing.

"Audix" wrote in message

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:01:02 +0000, Keith G
wrote:

Anyway, here's the original again:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


And here's Arny's suggestion (EQ is not *my* work):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaMEQ.mp3


So, it's a simple case of 'better or worse?'...??

What does the team think?


The original is definitely not mellow. The composite
nature is revealed however. Clarinet sounds roughly as
one would expect but the saxophone is rather too breathy
(on axis?) for my taste. This latter may be due to
microphone positioning or the characteristic of the mic
itself, with which I'm unfamiliar. The piece comes over
as being put together, rather than existing in a natural
acoustic setting.

The EQ'd version sounds awful to me. Excessive HF lift to
the point that it becomes annoying - completely destroys
the musical cohesiveness and tonality of the piece.

We all hear things differently, so my comments are purely
personal observations.

Who am I? - A retired sound recording engineer
approaching his sixties.

What was I listening on? - Playback from PC using Opticom
(Fraunhofer) mp3 codec. Monitoring via ATC SCM100A
primarily, but also checked via Rogers LS5/8 and Genelec
1031A.

Obviously someone that Iain brought in since no regular was supporting him,
probably a member of that unknown audio group that has excluded me. ;-)
(dev.nul = autobiographical?) has posted here only once
before in the history of Usenet, according to google.

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk

Yeah, too true blue, I've only been here a short time but
I see that the 'mandarins' must hang around their
computers waiting for any casual aside or slightly
ambiguous comment so that they can pounce to demonstrate
their utter technical superiority.

Thanks for describing the behavoir of yourself, Kitty and Iain so well!

I see all the 'usual'
tricks..selective post editing

One of your tricks - completely ignoring posts with relevant questions that
would embarass you were you to respond truthfully.

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:49:08 +0000, Audix wrote:

Anyway, here's the original again:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


And here's Arny's suggestion (EQ is not *my* work):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaMEQ.mp3


So, it's a simple case of 'better or worse?'...??

What does the team think?

Returning to what really matters...

Pity the sax is restricted to playing footballs under the clarinet
melody. How about writing some two-part voicings in unison rhythm?
The clarinettist is obviously a reader more than a jazzer, so this
might also help her in developing her jazz phrasing.

Audix wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:01:02 +0000, Keith G
wrote:

Anyway, here's the original again:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


And here's Arny's suggestion (EQ is not *my* work):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaMEQ.mp3


So, it's a simple case of 'better or worse?'...??

What does the team think?


The original is definitely not mellow. The composite nature is
revealed however. Clarinet sounds roughly as one would expect but the
saxophone is rather too breathy (on axis?) for my taste. This latter
may be due to microphone positioning or the characteristic of the mic
itself, with which I'm unfamiliar. The piece comes over as being put
together, rather than existing in a natural acoustic setting.

The EQ'd version sounds awful to me. Excessive HF lift to the point
that it becomes annoying - completely destroys the musical
cohesiveness and tonality of the piece.

We all hear things differently, so my comments are purely personal
observations.



Of course - understood perfectly.



Who am I? - A retired sound recording engineer approaching his
sixties.


Isn't everybody in this group?

:-)



What was I listening on? - Playback from PC using Opticom (Fraunhofer)
mp3 codec. Monitoring via ATC SCM100A primarily, but also checked via
Rogers LS5/8 and Genelec 1031A.



OK - good of you to have made the effort!


Thank you for you response and very interesting comments - I prefer the
'original' myself so that's two of us, but even my partner who played
the clarinet thought Arny's suggested version was interesting and said
it made the instruments a little more realistic in one or two places!! (??)

Personally, I thought it was a little 'tizzy' but, either way, it's a
pity he had to try and make it yet another of his obnoxious/bombastic
but utterly futile attempts to get the better of Iain!!

;-)

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:49:08 +0000, Audix wrote:

Anyway, here's the original again:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


And here's Arny's suggestion (EQ is not *my* work):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaMEQ.mp3


So, it's a simple case of 'better or worse?'...??

What does the team think?

Returning to what really matters...

Pity the sax is restricted to playing footballs under the clarinet
melody. How about writing some two-part voicings in unison rhythm?
The clarinettist is obviously a reader more than a jazzer, so this
might also help her in developing her jazz phrasing.


You are quite correct - the clarinettist is indeed a *reader* and, in
her own words, *doesn't do busking*!!

What about you - can you record yourself playing the clarinet? I'm sure
the more the merrier and it would give Iain a chance to construct more
of a 'big band'sound!!

Speaking of which, if any big band enthusiasts were to look on my Show N
Tell page right now, they might find summat of interest:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/show.html


If they are a) quick enough and b) can live with 'vinyl transcriptions'!!

;-)

Keith G wrote:


What about you - can you record yourself playing the clarinet?


Oops - meant *trombone* of course...!!

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:13:50 +0000, Keith G
wrote:

Pity the sax is restricted to playing footballs under the clarinet
melody. How about writing some two-part voicings in unison rhythm?
The clarinettist is obviously a reader more than a jazzer, so this
might also help her in developing her jazz phrasing.


You are quite correct - the clarinettist is indeed a *reader* and, in
her own words, *doesn't do busking*!!

What about you - can you record yourself playing the clarinet? I'm sure
the more the merrier and it would give Iain a chance to construct more
of a 'big band'sound!!

I'm trombone, not clarinet. And, sadly, more ex-trombone. It's one
of those things that aren't worth doing unless you do them every day,
and work moved in other directions many years ago.

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:49:08 +0000, Audix wrote:

Anyway, here's the original again:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


And here's Arny's suggestion (EQ is not *my* work):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaMEQ.mp3


So, it's a simple case of 'better or worse?'...??

What does the team think?

Returning to what really matters...

Pity the sax is restricted to playing footballs under the clarinet
melody.

It's a four part "curtain" The reason is that the arrangement is
for trio plus solo instrument, so the addition of second and third
parts tends to distract. I did try this, and sketched out a few bars
of Miller type clarinet lead 4 part saxophone harmonies, but
decided to keep to the original plan. I got my 15 seconds of
glory in the second chorus:-))))

The other thing is that Moira is a classically trained clarinet
player. I play jazz saxophone, with all that entails regarding
difference in vibrato, intonation etc. Moira's reading is
impeccable. Mine is improving with playing in a big band
where Kenton and Ellington are held in great esteem. We
have five saxes but no clarinet double. Maybe Moira will
come and sit in one day on "Moonlight Serenade".

How about writing some two-part voicings in unison rhythm?
The clarinettist is obviously a reader more than a jazzer, so this
might also help her in developing her jazz phrasing.

Hmm. That's an interesting suggestion, but rather getting away from the
original idea. I very much like the contrast between the two styles.

If we do a sequel, would you care to take part Laurence?
Do you play valve, or slide trombone?

Iain

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:13:50 +0000, Keith G
wrote:

You are quite correct - the clarinettist is indeed a *reader* and, in
her own words, *doesn't do busking*!!

So that's where she is now. Things can progress. If she likes
"Georgia" enough to take the trouble to make that recording, I expect
she likes it enough to work on learning the style?