Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , MiNe
109
wrote:
In article , "David Looser"
wrote:


That coincided with record companies no longer accepting returns of
unsold lps. Shops abandoned the medium rather take the risk.


*People* abandoned the medium because the CD was taking over - that
lead to unsold LPs. Had the LP still be selling well there wouldn't
have been unsold LPs to return.

*People* abandoned the medium because they couldn't find them in stores.
This happened quickly in the US.

Can't comment on the US as I've never lived there.

My recollection was that for a number of years there were more LPs in the
shops I went into than CDs. The LPs were also distinctly cheaper. And I
used to find I often had to order a CD and wait a couple of weeks. TBH The
only reason I didn't just buy what I wanted via mail from someone like
Covent Garden or Windows (no, not Bill Gates. :-) ) was a wish to put the
trade the way of a local shop.

More recently the local shop said it simply wasn't practical for them or
order indivudual CDs any more as all the wholesalers, etc, insisted on
large 'minimum order' numbers that meant they either had to buy things they
didn't want, or you had to wait for ages. They amagamated with the local
shop that sold art supplies, instruments, etc, a while later. They are now
gone entirely. A great shame. So far as I am concerned in large part they
were a victim of how the large music biz treated them.

The likes of EMI don't really care so far as I can see. Suits them OK to
have CDs flogged via the web and the CI and duck VAT. That way they just
send shiploads to one or two 'retailers' rather than supply many small
shops.

Record companies could require minimum orders, so a flop title would be
a disaster for the shop if returns weren't accepted.

Both my own experience and reports I've read written by dealers say that

1) The companies made it difficult for them to return faulty LPs and
recover the money.

2) CDs simply didn't get returned to the shop as faulty as often as an LP
did. Particularly for things like classical music rather than the more
'here today and forgotten tomorrow' types of chart pop.

3) Higher markup on CDs at the time.

So no contest so far as the shop was concerned.

No returns is definitely an advantage. The labels also didn't like
independent pressing plant operators for a variety of reasons: dodgy
business practices ("breakage" quotas), etc.

I had sympathy for small music shops. The big music companies made their
life very difficult. Insisting they had to place orders for many items.
Then refusing to deal with faulty returns quickly and conveniently (from
the shop's POV). In effect, each LP returned to the shop became a 'long
term loan' from the shop to the music company who made the LP. Leaving the
shop with all the hassle.

Things were tough for small independent shops in the US as well.
Advertising support was another way for distributors to influence
retailers that favored chains over small shops.

Stephen

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Yes, but I bet many more BDs will be rented rather than
bought for a while yet.

I think this is due to a change in how the market is working, not any
reflection on BD technical benefits.


Absolutely.



While many DVDs look better than ever on my new 60" HD set, the slight
extra cost for BD as opposed to DVD was easy to swallow.


No good spoiling the ship for a hap'orth of tar - I project my movies (72
and 100 inch wide screens - no idea about the diagonals) and every little
bit of extra resolution counts, so BDs are best for me.


The ready availability of rental media ensured that in nearly 2 decades I
purchased only integer numbers of pre-recorded tapes and DVDs.

Netflix selection by web and delivery by mail or download only made my
non-purchase habits more complete.


Internet 'on demand' streaming will probably rule at the end of the day.

And the ice caps will get smaller and smaller....

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I think that more labels would like to be
able to issue material on both CD and vinyl
but even if the retail price of the LP is double that
of the CD, the production, pressing and printing costs
are ten times. Convincing the bean counters is
no easy task:-)


I'm sure you're right. Whenever the subject of vinyl comes up on the telly
there is usually someone saying that people like 'something they can hold
in their hand' and that downloads/MP3s significantly fail to satisfy in
that area.

Morning Keith

The labels with new vinyl issues have grasped this,
and use it to great advantage. Most parallel issues
have vinyl in gatefold sleeves, with additional photos
and bio information, which together with a pair of
good-sounding 180gm presings makes a very tactile
and pleasing package.

Vinyl is small but it is a steady niche product these days. It's never
going to completely die out - I wonder if the same will be able to be said
about

Classical and jazz download figs are way below those
for popular music, so there is good reason to hope that
these will continue to be distributed on CD.

As I mentioned above, it is difficult to convince the bean counters
to fnance the issue of the same material on another medium (vinyl)
that costs ten times as much for every process post master.
In addition there is the additional cost of logistics, and storage,
all things which the book keepers watch with a beady eye.



Iain

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

I wonder how may record salesmen/women at your
famous Walmart could direct a customer to what
he/she considers the best three versions of
the Quartets of Alexander Kopylov?

Why would anyone need to ask a salesperson such a thing given the
availability of the Internet?

Google answers the question from my breakfast table in less than a second.


Really?

Then please interrupt your breakfast for "less than
a second".

I don't need catalogue numbers, just info
on labels and artists of three versions, and
a knowledgeable evaluation as to which is best,
and why.

Don't inclue the Elman, everyone knows that one.

I don't expect you to do this for nothing.
It will be a pleasure to reimburse you for your
expertise.

Iain

Technics direct drive turntables
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:


I don't need catalogue numbers, just info on labels and artists of three
versions, and a knowledgeable evaluation as to which is best, and why.

I must admit that I am ever more wary of "knowledgeable evaulations" by
someone else of a *performance* of a work than by ones of more
engeneering-based decisions. But I'd agree this may be a reason to tend to
find someone whose opinions past experience has shown are a good indication
in terms of your own personal taste.

I did used to find out local music shop very helpful and I wanted to go on
supporting them. But even there I was wary of any recommendations as to
which version was 'best'.

Over the past decade or two I've occasionally talked to someone who was
curious about listening to 'classical' music but felt they had no clear
idea what they might like or dislike. My advice has tended to be

A) Listen to Radio 3 some of the time. Make this a casual habit without
expecting to fall in love with everything you hear.

B) Buy BBC Music Magazine and listen to the cover CD. This lets you listen
to a given performance more than once to become familiar with it if you
choose.

Although these days the iPlayer also lets you re-listen and use the last
seven days as a 'big CD to explore'. :-)

Then decide using your own ear what you like and what you don't. My view is
that it is the cheapest and most effective way if you have no prior
knowledge of what you prefer. And the actual performances and production
values are usually very good. You can also get some remarkable CDs from (B)
where excellent artists make recordings they have not released on
commercial CD.

Alas, although R3 do broadcast some Jazz, the situation is more limited in
that area. Some years ago there was a Jazz magazine with excellent cover
discs. But the magazine went bust after a couple of years.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

I wonder how may record salesmen/women at your
famous Walmart could direct a customer to what
he/she considers the best three versions of
the Quartets of Alexander Kopylov?

Why would anyone need to ask a salesperson such a thing
given the availability of the Internet?

Google answers the question from my breakfast table in
less than a second.


Really?

Then please interrupt your breakfast for "less than
a second".

I don't need catalogue numbers, just info
on labels and artists of three versions, and
a knowledgeable evaluation as to which is best,
and why.

Don't inclue the Elman, everyone knows that one.

I don't expect you to do this for nothing.
It will be a pleasure to reimburse you for your
expertise.

In the interest of teaching you how to fish rather than giving you a few
fish Iain, here's some basic information that you obviously need:

www.google.com

http://www.googleguide.com/

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

I wonder how may record salesmen/women at your
famous Walmart could direct a customer to what
he/she considers the best three versions of
the Quartets of Alexander Kopylov?

Why would anyone need to ask a salesperson such a thing
given the availability of the Internet?

Google answers the question from my breakfast table in
less than a second.


Really?

Then please interrupt your breakfast for "less than
a second".

I don't need catalogue numbers, just info
on labels and artists of three versions, and
a knowledgeable evaluation as to which is best,
and why.

Don't inclue the Elman, everyone knows that one.

I don't expect you to do this for nothing.
It will be a pleasure to reimburse you for your
expertise.

In the interest of teaching you how to fish rather than giving you a few
fish Iain, here's some basic information that you obviously need:


I thought I'd give it a try.

It was certainly possible, within a few minutes (hardly "less than a
second"!) to find links to recordings of these works. But as for "a
knowledgeable evaluation", nope. I guess if I'd spent longer I might have
done, but I didn't care enough to put in the time.

On the other hand how many record shops from "the good old days" would have
had someone able to give "a knowledgeable evaluation" either? - precious few
I'd guess.

David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

I wonder how may record salesmen/women at your
famous Walmart could direct a customer to what
he/she considers the best three versions of
the Quartets of Alexander Kopylov?


Figuring out the best 3 versions is pretty easy because a little research
shows that there aren't more then 3 commercial recordings of any of them.

http://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet...lov,_Alexander)

http://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet...lov,_Alexander)

http://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet...lov,_Alexander)

http://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet...lov,_Alexander)

Actually, there appears to be only one that covers all 4 works:

Khachaturian, K: Cipollino (2CD)(Ballet in Three Acts) [CD, Import] Bolshoi
Theatre Symphony Orchestra (Conductor), Alexander Kopylov (Orchestra) |
Format: Audio CD

on the Melodiya label (fugures!)

Potentially available he

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Marina sbooks

On the other hand how many record shops from "the good
old days" would have had someone able to give "a
knowledgeable evaluation" either? - precious few I'd
guess.

I can see the blank stare right now: "Kopy-who?"

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I think that more labels would like to be
able to issue material on both CD and vinyl
but even if the retail price of the LP is double that
of the CD, the production, pressing and printing costs
are ten times. Convincing the bean counters is
no easy task:-)


I'm sure you're right. Whenever the subject of vinyl comes up on the
telly
there is usually someone saying that people like 'something they can hold
in their hand' and that downloads/MP3s significantly fail to satisfy in
that area.

Morning Keith


G'devening Iain!



The labels with new vinyl issues have grasped this,
and use it to great advantage. Most parallel issues
have vinyl in gatefold sleeves, with additional photos
and bio information, which together with a pair of
good-sounding 180gm presings makes a very tactile
and pleasing package.


Except when the buggers include CD sized booklets in an LP package!



Vinyl is small but it is a steady niche product these days. It's never
going to completely die out - I wonder if the same will be able to be
said
about

Classical and jazz download figs are way below those
for popular music, so there is good reason to hope that
these will continue to be distributed on CD.


My guess is like vinyl CDs will never completely disappear - too many people
using CDR/CDRWs on computers, for a start.



As I mentioned above, it is difficult to convince the bean counters
to fnance the issue of the same material on another medium (vinyl)
that costs ten times as much for every process post master.
In addition there is the additional cost of logistics, and storage,
all things which the book keepers watch with a beady eye.


'Bookkeeper(s) is one word - the only one in the Eng. Lang. which features
three consecutive sets of double letters!

(Notta lotta peeple know dat! ;-)

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message

I wonder how may record salesmen/women at your
famous Walmart could direct a customer to what
he/she considers the best three versions of
the Quartets of Alexander Kopylov?

Why would anyone need to ask a salesperson such a thing
given the availability of the Internet?

Google answers the question from my breakfast table in
less than a second.


Really?

Then please interrupt your breakfast for "less than
a second".

I don't need catalogue numbers, just info
on labels and artists of three versions, and
a knowledgeable evaluation as to which is best,
and why.

Don't inclue the Elman, everyone knows that one.

I don't expect you to do this for nothing.
It will be a pleasure to reimburse you for your
expertise.

In the interest of teaching you how to fish rather than giving you a few
fish Iain, here's some basic information that you obviously need:


I thought I'd give it a try.

It was certainly possible, within a few minutes (hardly "less than a
second"!) to find links to recordings of these works. But as for "a
knowledgeable evaluation", nope. I guess if I'd spent longer I might have
done, but I didn't care enough to put in the time.

Indeed there are links, but, it seems, not to complete recordings,
nor to reviews either.


On the other hand how many record shops from "the good old days" would
have had someone able to give "a knowledgeable evaluation" either? -
precious few I'd guess.

I am lucky to have a a shop fairly local where the
owner is behind the counter. He has a vast knowledge,
and can find what you are enquiring after very quickly indeed.
A large part of the classical repertoire is known
to him personally, so he can make reliable recomendations.
His lady assistant also makes very good Belgian coffee.

My recollections of shops in the UK, such as HMV in Oxford
St, and those in Tottenham Ct Road, and in Soho, are, with the
exception of the Belgian coffee, similar.

There is surely no substitute for knowledgeable personal
service.

With regard to the Quartets of Alexander Kopylov I
am reliably informed (by a Russian cellist who whose
knowledge of the classical repertoire means that he
does not need to rely in Google) that there are in fact
three or possibly more recordings of the complete quartets.

There are also published reviews, but it probably requires
a search in Russian, Czech or Hungarian to find them.
The recordings that are of especial interest dates from
1949 and include Op.32, 33 from a broadcast recording.

These have never been released on CD. Watch this space:-)))

On the other hand how many record shops from "the good
old days" would have had someone able to give "a
knowledgeable evaluation" either? - precious few I'd
guess.

I can see the blank stare right now: "Kopy-who?"

In Detroit Walmart, almost certainly:-)


Iain