Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"David Looser" wrote


I also note that CD sales soared and LP sales slumped at
a time when CDs cost roughly double that of the
equivalent LP. Possibly people like the idea of a buying
a 'premium' (read more expensive) product.


People, having committed themselves with a player, were
buying into a radical new 'perfect music for life'
product.

Interestingly enough, a product that proved itself with the first few discs
purchased.

IME about one in 10 titles was poorly mastered in the early days, so there
was a finite chance of obtaining a looser in the first disc purchased.

They are not so gullible these days and a 'breakthrough' really does have
to deliver.

The only relevant thing that took gullibility was believing that CDs were
not going to become the number one pre-recorded medium, and darn quick!

We've seen DVD audio and SACDs fall on their arse

The fall was expedited by the excellent performance of the audio CD.

and HD TV will only succeed because it is Hobson's Choice

Boy, HDTV must really be *bad* in the UK.

and Blu-Ray will soon be the same

?????????????

- what are the chances of 3D TV making it big?

Of the issues you raised, the only one that is seriously in question.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote


I also note that CD sales soared and LP sales slumped at a time when CDs
cost roughly double that of the equivalent LP. Possibly people like the
idea of a buying a 'premium' (read more expensive) product.


People, having committed themselves with a player, were buying into a
radical new 'perfect music for life' product. They are not so gullible
these days and a 'breakthrough' really does have to deliver.

They never were that gullible.


Are you kidding? Chart CDs were 14 quid in the UK; 10 quid in France and 6
quid in the US. It never got any better until the Internet blew it all
apart. You don't get more gullible than that - Rip Off (or '****') Britain!


There are no end of products that simply
failed to make it commercially. RCA nearly went bankrupt trying to launch
their "Selectavision" videodisc in 1980, the public simply didn't want it
and wouldn't buy it. Similarly with Philips Digital Compact Cassette and
Sony with the Elcaset.

CD succeeded because it really was better.


It is better than LP by various standards but not from a 'sound
quality/listening experince' POV, in my book. Much better in the car for
starters...!!


Maybe it wasn't as indestructible
as the hype claimed, but a lot of people (me included) were really fed up
with the poor quality of the average LP, I'd stopped buying LPs even
before the CD was commercially available.


OK, that's where we differ - maybe my kit wasn't up to it (Cambridge Audio
P50 amp; Philips GA202 deck with Ortofon Gawd knows what; AR 4Xa speakers)
but I never had to return a disc, they were all fine - as are the ones I am
playing right now.


And when the CD appeared it did not
disappoint, the quality really was what I'd been hoping it would be.

We've seen DVD audio and SACDs fall on their arse and HD TV will only
succeed because it is Hobson's Choice and Blu-Ray will soon be the same -
what are the chances of 3D TV making it big?

My guess is that it will fail to win sufficient 'hearts and minds'....


I entirely agree, whilst 3D may sell cinema seats, I really don't think
that most people want a TV picture that looks blurry unless you wear
special glasses. People generally don't sit and concentrate on watching
TV, they use it as background to other activities so having to wear these
glasses will be a killer for 3D TV IMO.


Yes, we are in agreement there.

I have two 3D Blu-Rays he Coraline and Journey to the Centre Of The
Earth - apart from the stunning opening/title sequence of Coraline, they are
a better watch in '2D'. The overall 'cocoa' colour of the 3D versions is a
serious killer for me! Mind you that's only the two colour (anaglyph?)
stuff, not the shutter thing the TVs do.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote


OK, that's where we differ - maybe my kit wasn't up to it (Cambridge Audio
P50 amp; Philips GA202 deck with Ortofon Gawd knows what; AR 4Xa speakers)
but I never had to return a disc, they were all fine - as are the ones I
am playing right now.


Correction: the deck was a Philips GA212

http://sebastian-scherf.homepage.t-o...s_ga_212_1.jpg


Very 'chick' - it had green illuminated non-moving 'lift' buttons to set the
speed and a rocker switch to raise and lower the tonearm.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


sneeyip


We've seen DVD audio and SACDs fall on their arse

The fall was expedited by the excellent performance of the audio CD.


I agree that for 'digital' a good CD is all I need, but there were a number
of factors that went into the early demise of the DVDA and SACDs: They were
greedily/discouragingly priced to start with; they needed an expensive
player; they didn't sound *that much* better (if at all) on 'hifi' equipment
and almost certainly wouldn't have done on 'domestic' (electrical hardware
shop) kit and the first available titles seemed to be not much more than
obscure 'samplers'. Factor in also that I asked about SACDs in a well-know
music store (can't remember its name for the life of me - HMV, Huntingdon?)
and the sales assistant didn't know what I was talking about!!



and HD TV will only succeed because it is Hobson's Choice

Boy, HDTV must really be *bad* in the UK.


No idea, but you can't buy anything but 'HD Ready' TVs in this country.
(Correct me if I'm wrong here!)



and Blu-Ray will soon be the same

?????????????


Wait and see - the remasters and releases are coming thick and fast; there's
no price premium for BluRay rentals and BD players are dropping fast in
price. I predict they will kill the ordinary DVD off if the Internet doesn't
do it first - things are moving quickly in the audiovisual/entertainment
world nowadays!

(Thank Gawd for the radio and LPs! :-)



- what are the chances of 3D TV making it big?

Of the issues you raised, the only one that is seriously in question.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

Keith G said...

Very 'chick' - it had green illuminated non-moving 'lift' buttons to set the
speed and a rocker switch to raise and lower the tonearm.

They were very cool and like most Philips kit of that time very well
made for the price. I had 2 at one stage, have just looked in my bits
box and still have one of the slide in cartridge carriers with an
original GP400 cartridge clipped to it, sans stylus of course.

They did have one design fault, if you got out of the shower with wet
hair, bent over it to put some kool chunes on and a drop of water fell
into one of the illuminated touch switches then that switch would
stubornly remain operative until either the drop evaporated or dopey
showeree finally figured out why it was stuck on 45 rpm and wielded a
tissue:-)

The Ortofon must surely have been a VMS20E.

--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote


sneeyip


We've seen DVD audio and SACDs fall on their arse

The fall was expedited by the excellent performance of
the audio CD.


there were a number of factors that went into the early
demise of the DVDA and SACDs:


They were
greedily/discouragingly priced to start with;

Not that much more than CDs, if memory serves.

they needed an expensive player;

Player prices came way down to well under $200. I even own one. Still no joy
in the marketplace.

they didn't sound *that much* better
(if at all) on 'hifi' equipment

Unless they were remastered and ended up sounding better than the
predecessor CDs.

and almost certainly
wouldn't have done on 'domestic' (electrical hardware
shop) kit

There was precious little if any of that would play a SACD or DVD-A.

and the first available titles seemed to be not
much more than obscure 'samplers'.

I think there were eventually over 5,000 titles but still no joy.

Factor in also that I
asked about SACDs in a well-know music store (can't
remember its name for the life of me - HMV, Huntingdon?)
and the sales assistant didn't know what I was talking
about!!

See my former comments about relying on store staff for anything but taking
your money...

and HD TV will only succeed because it is Hobson's
Choice

Boy, HDTV must really be *bad* in the UK.

No idea, but you can't buy anything but 'HD Ready' TVs in
this country. (Correct me if I'm wrong here!)

You do have HD broadcast TV working by now, eh?

and Blu-Ray will soon be the same

?????????????

Wait and see - the remasters and releases are coming
thick and fast; there's no price premium for BluRay
rentals

Actually, Netflix is nicking me for an extra buck or so a month to get
BluRay discs.

and BD players are dropping fast in price.

Roger that! For about $130 you can get a Blu Ray player that is wonderful
for CDs, DVDs, Blu Ray, internet, and even downloads off of your PC.

I predict they will kill the ordinary DVD off if the
Internet doesn't do it first

The problem with the internet lacks the capacity for widespread HD video
downloading. Most of Netflix's downloadable catalog is SD and not their best
movies, only a tiny subset of their entire catalog. Yet, their downloads are
20% of the total US Internet traffic. To much more of that, and the whole
sand castle comes tumbling down.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...


They never were that gullible.


Are you kidding? Chart CDs were 14 quid in the UK; 10 quid in France and 6
quid in the US. It never got any better until the Internet blew it all
apart. You don't get more gullible than that - Rip Off (or '****')
Britain!


Make your mind up as to what point you are making. One minute you are saying
that people (nationality not stated) *were* gullible, but aren't now. *Now*
you are saying that it's only the British who are gullible. Since at the
time most of us didn't have the option to buy from outside the UK it was no
more "gullible" to pay £12 for a CD than it was to pay the local price for
any other commodity. BTW I remember 'full price' CDs as costing between £10
and £12, not £14. But even at £12 they were still well worth the premium
over the £6 - £8 of the equivalent LP at the time. Are people being
"gullible" to stay in a London Hotel when they could stay in a hotel
elsewhere for a lot less?

CD succeeded because it really was better.


It is better than LP by various standards but not from a 'sound
quality/listening experince' POV, in my book. Much better in the car for
starters...!!

Well we'll just have to disagree on that. In my book CDs are better in many
ways but *particularly* from a "'sound quality/listening experince' POV".
It's odd, because you've written in praise of the "HD" (ie. lossless) audio
on Bluray, which I find more or less indistinguishable from good ol' Dolby
Digital, yet appear unmoved by the relatively dramatic improvement in going
from LP to CD.


Maybe it wasn't as indestructible
as the hype claimed, but a lot of people (me included) were really fed up
with the poor quality of the average LP, I'd stopped buying LPs even
before the CD was commercially available.


OK, that's where we differ - maybe my kit wasn't up to it (Cambridge Audio
P50 amp; Philips GA202 deck with Ortofon Gawd knows what; AR 4Xa speakers)
but I never had to return a disc, they were all fine - as are the ones I
am playing right now.


Well the ones I bought were far from "fine", indeed I'm not sure I've ever
come across an LP I'd describe as "fine", not by comparison to a CD that is.
Even the best have audible surface noise and harmonic distortion, many
from the 1970s had pressed-in clicks and pops and various "wooshes" and
other faults. Taking them back didn't help as the replacement would be just
as bad. CD was well worth the premium IMO.


I have two 3D Blu-Rays he Coraline and Journey to the Centre Of The
Earth - apart from the stunning opening/title sequence of Coraline, they
are a better watch in '2D'. The overall 'cocoa' colour of the 3D versions
is a serious killer for me! Mind you that's only the two colour
(anaglyph?) stuff, not the shutter thing the TVs do.


TBH I don't like 3D at all, not even in the cinema. Maybe it's something to
do with my eyesight but I find the effect tiring to watch and, at times,
quite distracting. I sincerely hope that the current 3D fad burns itself out
as quickly as all the previous 3D fads did.


David.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"UnsteadyKen" wrote in message
m...
Keith G said...

Very 'chick' - it had green illuminated non-moving 'lift' buttons to set
the
speed and a rocker switch to raise and lower the tonearm.

They were very cool and like most Philips kit of that time very well
made for the price.


Yes Ken, it was - same with Grundig but both 'names' seem to have diminished
now.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...


They never were that gullible.


Are you kidding? Chart CDs were 14 quid in the UK; 10 quid in France and
6
quid in the US. It never got any better until the Internet blew it all
apart. You don't get more gullible than that - Rip Off (or '****')
Britain!


Make your mind up as to what point you are making. One minute you are
saying that people (nationality not stated) *were* gullible, but aren't
now.


Where am I saying that?


*Now*
you are saying that it's only the British who are gullible.


I'm saying the (Rip Off) Brits are gullible - I don't know about the rest. I
do know they got their CDs (and petrol) a lot cheaper than we did.


Since at the
time most of us didn't have the option to buy from outside the UK it was
no more "gullible" to pay £12 for a CD than it was to pay the local price
for any other commodity.


You had the option to say '**** it' and not buy the item at that price. It's
what I did.


BTW I remember 'full price' CDs as costing between £10
and £12, not £14. But even at £12 they were still well worth the premium
over the £6 - £8 of the equivalent LP at the time.


Maybe to you, not to me.


Are people being
"gullible" to stay in a London Hotel when they could stay in a hotel
elsewhere for a lot less?



Depends where you need to be: if you need to be in London you don't have
much choice, do you?



CD succeeded because it really was better.


It is better than LP by various standards but not from a 'sound
quality/listening experince' POV, in my book. Much better in the car for
starters...!!

Well we'll just have to disagree on that.


Yep.



In my book CDs are better in many
ways but *particularly* from a "'sound quality/listening experince' POV".
It's odd, because you've written in praise of the "HD" (ie. lossless)
audio
on Bluray, which I find more or less indistinguishable from good ol' Dolby
Digital, yet appear unmoved by the relatively dramatic improvement in
going
from LP to CD.


You need to realise that some people (includes me and my partner) don't
perceive that 'dramatic improvement' - quite the opposite. I suspect you are
one of those people who hover over the speakers and only hear the surface
noise from LPs...??


OK, that's where we differ - maybe my kit wasn't up to it (Cambridge
Audio
P50 amp; Philips GA202 deck with Ortofon Gawd knows what; AR 4Xa
speakers)
but I never had to return a disc, they were all fine - as are the ones I
am playing right now.


Well the ones I bought were far from "fine", indeed I'm not sure I've ever
come across an LP I'd describe as "fine", not by comparison to a CD that
is.
Even the best have audible surface noise and harmonic distortion, many
from the 1970s had pressed-in clicks and pops and various "wooshes" and
other faults. Taking them back didn't help as the replacement would be
just
as bad. CD was well worth the premium IMO.


That's OK, LPs weren't for you - I can live with that. They are fine for me.


TBH I don't like 3D at all, not even in the cinema. Maybe it's something
to
do with my eyesight but I find the effect tiring to watch and, at times,
quite distracting. I sincerely hope that the current 3D fad burns itself
out
as quickly as all the previous 3D fads did.


We are still in agreement on that one. 3D TVs are a lot of money I'm told
and you need a 3D player (not so expensive - say a 160 quid) - too much
outlay and hassle for Joe Snot for what little 3D material there is likely
to be.

Technics direct drive turntables
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Keith G" wrote


OK, that's where we differ - maybe my kit wasn't up to
it (Cambridge Audio P50 amp; Philips GA202 deck with
Ortofon Gawd knows what; AR 4Xa speakers) but I never
had to return a disc, they were all fine - as are the
ones I am playing right now.


Correction: the deck was a Philips GA212

http://sebastian-scherf.homepage.t-o...s_ga_212_1.jpg


Very 'chick' - it had green illuminated non-moving 'lift'
buttons to set the speed and a rocker switch to raise and
lower the tonearm.

My recollection is that unlike the Lenco L-7x series, this was actually a
pretty good piece of kit.